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Old 9th October 2008, 10:27
Nikita Egorov Nikita Egorov is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Moscow
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Nikita Egorov
Re: KG51 losses on 23 August 1942.

Dear Andreas,

I understand your irritation. Let me explain, my purpose is not to put the blame on somebody for doing something deliberately, but to clarify some uncertain points that can be helpfull for further research. Working with original documents, I fully aware that it is almost impossible to chase every discrapancy or misidentification that occured. However, you said that deadly mess during Stalingrad battle is obvious explanation for lack of losses. I agree. Unfortunatelly the question "to what extent it happened" remains open by the time. Is it possible, using the Luftwaffe documents, to trace how many planes were deployed to Stalingrad units and disappeared after the battle with no sign of it GQ returns?

You asked for examples from Soviet side. First about the system itself. As I wrote you before the most reliable source from Soviet side is first hand accounts and reports of regimental level. Every day head of staff issued operational report that was comprised of operational strength on the beginning of the day (total and combat ready), detailed accounts of combat sorties (time of take off, complement of group, leader, task, area, description of combats (if were any), losses, claims, landing time.). Also included were: weather report, recon reports, notes for the previous days (clarifications of losses and claims missed in the previous files) and at operational strengh by the end of the day (total and combat ready with mention of the planes send to repair sections). This document along with pilots reports on claims and losses is basis for other second-hand accounts documents, that emerge on the division, corps, army etc. levels. Also, one can use summaries that also issued by periods on losses and claims. That is comprehansive books that take stock of every claim and loss for the period at issue with sircimstances, detailed area, height, etc.

But although they were general forms of reporting, documents of various regiments differ from each other (e.g. reports could include planes production numbers and personal markings, and could not.) In this case one should expand the research on to technical documents that shed the light on particular damage suffered by aircraft and giving aircraft details such as production number, engine number, armament, etc

Off course, that is applicable if there any witness or info on how the plane was lost, otherwise it is simply marked as missing. If the the sircimstances are revealed later, it is written as addition to other operational reports.

Here are the examples that can be found in Soviet documents relating losses:

07.08.1943. 248 IAP. Yak-7 (p.n. 3359), tail number "09". 9.42 (Moscow time) shot down in combat with Fw-190 area Khotynets - Moshenoje. Pilot Starshiy Leitenant Danelyuk bailed out. Injured. Returned to unit.

or

03.07.1943. 233 IAP. Yak-7 (p.n. 3483), fuselage number "23". 18.35 shot up in combat with Fw-190 area of Krivtsovo. Plane wrecked on belly landing. Pilot Mladshiy Leitenant Samokhin killed.
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