[Kildlawyrs]

Well gentlemen, I guess there is no better way for a new member to start out than to jump in with both feet! Even though some of the replies I received were rather... peculiar (still trying to figure out Andreas!), thanks to all for the responses. I hope this portends well for future discussions.

Graham made an interesting comment assuming that I was perhaps just "ignorant" about matters. Well, perhaps I am; I certainly make no particular claims to posessing incandescent brilliance. On the other hand, though I may be a "newbie" to this particular forum, I am hardly a newcomer to Luftwaffe history or WW II history "en toto". I am certainly well aware of the many opportunities available to Luftwaffe pilots and how this might have added to their higher scores. Additionally, the use of Luftwaffe pilots until they basically were absolutely burned out (or beyond) or killed, has not escaped my attention. I believe though, that you will find similar ill advised strategies in other air forces without the stupendous and frankly, hard to believe, results.

Falke brings up some very interesting points regarding Harmann's claims (as an aside, I should mention one thing; whether a man shot down 100, 10, 1 or zero airplanes, makes little difference to me. I have a great deal of admiration for all of them. This is all just a bit of esoteric and rather arcane interest we have in an obscure subject...put the children and the dog away). Russian sources have long disputed his claims, although in fairness, they may have their own personal reasons for doing so. But here is the main thing; the reliance of a wing man as final confirmation was hardly fool proof. There are at least two reasons for this. First, the wing man could certainly be subject to the same vagaries of viewing conditions (especially in mortal combat) as the shooter. Seeing pieces-even large pieces- detatch themselves from an airplane or seeing smoke stream from the engine is not necessarily incontrovertible proof of destruction. If you read some of Japanese ace Saburo Sakai's confirmed claims (made, I believe, in full honesty), the target aircraft was an absolute "goner", yet subsequent research showed the aircraft and pilot surviving. The second point to consider is the psychological one. A wing man (especially a junior one) would not likely be disposed to dispute his more experienced and famous leader. This could have serious ramifications for future postings and/or promotions.

The Germans were very adept at glorifying ALL of their servicemen; and why not? It was good for both troop as well as civilian morale, and the soldiers, sailors and airmen certainly deserved recognition. Fighter and bomber pilots, U boat captains and Panzer commanders were all lauded in the popular press. In many ways they were treated as we today treat (forgive the odious comparison) modern day rock stars. Did you ever notice their uniforms? Beautiful!

Bound to have an effect on the ladies too. Don't kid yourselves...

Man, I'm a windy SOB ain't I?