[Sylvester Stadler]

The possibility exists that neither Helm nor von Winterfeld was a fighter pilot and thus would not be listed under the roles of the Jasta pilots. Since Helm was with KG 5, he may have been a crew member of a bomber and was credited with the kills as a air gunner. The same could be stated of von Winterfeld. Many times, the observer of a two-seater was the officer with the pilot being an enlisted man. He may have scored his kills as a gunner in such an aircraft, which includes the many types of two-seat recon aircraft. His name is not mentioned in the history of the Schlachtflieger! by Rick Duiven which includes a list of pilots and gunners who had scored kills.