[Johannes]

Hi Guys

Regarding that Hartmann was well regarded in the Bundesluftwaffe. He was known to be unpopular during WW2. I would assume it was because his overclaiming was suspected/known by his comrades, though there could be other reasons. All his claims seemed to be at altitude(thus lack of the most difficult and dangerous Sowiet aircraft to shout down, the Il-2), whereas all his comrades were involved in the more dangerous low-level/ground attack combat as per routine. Perhaps his comrades were jealous. Toliver/Constable by memory stated that Fritz Obleser had a problem with Hartmann's claims, this is just not true. Also not true is that Hartmann never lost a wingman.

Those that have been sited as overclaimers have a certain pattern to there claims, which Hartmann has i.e many days of heavy/huge numbers, but a few claimers like this were actually honest. Almost all the honest pilots made few daily claims, or just a few heavy ones.....like Helmut Lipfert.

Personally I think Hartmann was a lousy officer who's rank far outreached his leadership ability....perhaps another possible reason for being unpopular.

Are we sure we have all the Russian losses before actually matching-up/or not
Hartmann's claims?. I would say that a honest claimer should have two-thirds of his claims actually crash, the rest he thought had crashed. In fact would it not be his wingmans secondary job to see the crash and record it?

Friedrich Geisshardt was unpopular, but not for his claiming.

I have noticed that the leaders of scoring at any particular time over Russia seem to be the overclaimers, it would appear they would do as much overclaiming as was necessary to he the leader I guess. Also having a usual wingman must be a must, unless the whole staffel was on the fiddle and had some kind of system. Saying this having studied many logbook pilots usually flew as a Rotte or Schwarm, rarely a whole Staffel.

Kind Regards

Johannes