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Old 6th October 2015, 21:55
Marius Marius is offline
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Re: Small case study: Bf 109 D vs. French fighters

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuerraCivil View Post
On 24.9.1939 at 13.00 hours (German time) near Saarbrücken the Morane-equipped GC I/3 clashed with the Doras of JGr 152 - the actual losses seem to have been 2 Moranes and 2 Doras although there is some difference in loss accounts: French were credited with two air-to-air victories while German records claim that one Bf 109 D (Lt. Rosenkratz) was lost in mid-air collision with unidentified plane, which might have been the other Bf 109 D (Gefr. Hesselbach) lost in the same combat. The JGr 152 claimed as many as 5 Moranes destroyed in this combat, but Ziefle downgrades that to three Moranes confirmed as destroyed. Ziefle mentions that JGr 152´s Doras were involved in another air combat against Hawk 75´s later on the same day - so it migh be that the "5 destroyed Moranes" consists of following: 2 actually destroyed, one German-confirmed overclaim (Ziefle´s claim) and two Hawk 75´s confusingly claimed as "Moranes"? (see the following).

Quite confusing air combat occurred on the same day of 24.9.1939 about 15.00 (German hour) in which "Doras" of JGr 152 were again involved together with Bf 109 E´s of II/JG 52. The enemy unit was GC II/4 equipped with Hawk 75. According to Persyn the Hawk pilots of GC II/4 pilots shot down three Bf 109 D´s of JGr 152 in this combat - he does not mention French losses. However German records (cited by Ziefle) do not confirm French claims but instead state that JGr 152 pilots were victorious shooting down two Hawks with the price of having two "Doras" damaged (repairable 30-40 %). Other Dora-equipped Luftwaffe units did not claim and did not record any losses on the 24.9.1939. In the light of contradictory info one wonders what might have been the actual score on this combat and what were the actual air combat losses of both sides on 24.9.1939?
Indeed very interesting topic. According to my research JGr.152 fought two times: at appr. 11 & 13 hours. As I remember 15-16 hours was mentioned by Shores first and apparently this story is completely wrong. But maybe someone knows more about?
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