Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Thompson
Hello Bill,
You are right about early to mid 1943, Luftflotte 3 did indeed fly the bulk of the missions against the 8th, partly because many US raids were against targets in its area of responsbiility. Even so even in the second quarter of 1943 LBfh Mitte lost 64 fighters in these engagements to 61 losses by Luftflotte 3 (data is again from Don Caldwell's book). In the third quarter the numers were 207 and 113, respectively. So the pressure of losses switched to the main German defence force quite rapidly.
As a minor quibble, the really heavy losses begin in October 1943, with a total of 185 aircraft destroyed (including both Lfl Reich and Lfl 3) and 116 KIA/MIA. Of course, the numbers rose very sharply thereafter, but the point I would emphasise is that even in July 1943 the fighter losses against the 8th were unsustainable. In the East, the combat losses from February 1943 to the end of the year were only 500 aircraft and 352 pilots in total. When that is taken as the point of reference, it becomes clear that even the early P-47 escorts made the situation impossible for the Luftwaffe.
Regards,
Paul
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Paul - the P-47D was very important - having said that, critical German industry was well beyond the ability of P-47s to escort beyond Dummer Lake, west of Kassel, Stuttgart. Fighter Sweeps unencumbered by the bombers could take the P-47D (through D-22 series) only to Hamburg, Hannover and nearly Friedrichshafen - but well short of Brunswick, Berlin, Magdeburg, Leipzig, Merseburg, Schwienfurt - much less Brux, Politz, Stettin or Munich. So, as Mustangs arrived in February to convert 4th FG, 355th, then 352nd - the Mustangs prevented the Luftwaffe from formerly successful 'retreat tactics' and forced them to engage despite presence of US long range escort.
I don't discount the P-38 as it ranged farther than the P-47 but the combination of mechanical issues prior to the P-38J-15 and lack of 100 gallons in leading edge of the wing relegated it to mostly intermediate range target escort like Brunswick and Halberstadt and Aschersleben. P-47s were relegated to Penetration escort and Withdrawal escort until replaced by P-51's. The P-51 first swept the effective twin engine ZG's in February and March from being operationally useful, then the Me 410s in June and July. The P-51s had such a large footprint that they also ranged east of Berlin to strafe airfields all the way through Czechoslovakia and nearly Austria east of Munich.
Additionally , not all the LW day fighter losses in 1943 can be attributed to US or even fighters alone. Both RAF and US fighters were engaging LF3 and while the B-17/B-24 'credits' were outrageous, they did have an impact on attrition.
I maintain that the combination of the Mustangs quickly getting traction on long range escort first by 354FG in December, then 357, 4, 363, 355FG's between Big Week and early March, followed by 353, 339, 361, 359FG's in a 30 day span of mid April to Mid May is THE force that engaged and destroyed more German aircraft by D-Day than all the 8th and 9th AF P-47s and P-38s and Spitfires from commencement of 8th AF operations. Spitfires. It was not all 8th and 9th AF Mustangs as the RAF quickly got Mustang III's and participated in US daylight escort missions in the Spring of 1944.
One can quibble about the number of VC's credited by AAF (ditto LW VCs and RAF VC's when comparing opposition records), but the process was the same for all US fighters and so the relative disparity between the P-47 and P-51 should scale in magnitude either way. The one aspect of the Mustang that was unmatched by the P-47 was unparalleled performance Combined with long range. There was no place for Day Fighters to hide and rest when the Mustang began long range escort in December 1943.
A point you raised about relatively low losses in the East during that same time frame should be expanded upon. Namely the East and the Sud fronts were seriously drained of experienced pilots and crews in late 1943 through spring 1944 to reinforce LuftFlotte Reich as it was being dominantly being chewed up by the Mustangs - until D-Day when the LW tried to augment the Invasion Front and was chewed up by RAF, 8th and 9th AF combined.
In general, the LW units tangling most with the Mustangs prior to D-Day were JG1, JG5, JG3, JG 11, JG 27, JG 53 with JG 51 periodically engaging to the east, JG 300, JG 301 plus ZG 26 and ZG 76. Overlap during Penetration and Withdrawal also included JG 2 and JG 26.