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Old 19th November 2019, 15:15
rof120 rof120 is offline
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Messerschmitt 109 losses, 1940

I think I made it clear enough that the Me 109's superiority (except against Spitfires and Dewoitine 520s) did not make it invulnerable to gunfire of all kinds. According to "Der Spiegel" (Germany) no less than 535 Me 109s were lost (destroyed) to all causes during the French Campaign alone (May 10-June 24, 1940), including accidents and losses to AA, rear-gunners of Allied bombers and recce AC and of course all Allied fighters including Dutch and British ones, and mainly the 912 deployed French fighters (as of May 10).

It is possible that "535" is not quite accurate but in any case, with all my knowledge of this matter, I find it perfectly possible.

Certainly some people don't believe it or… refuse to believe it. All right, look at another well-known GERMAN SOURCE: "Die Jagdfliegerverbände der deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945", volume 3, by Jochen Prien et al (The Fighter Units of the German Air Force 1934-1945), purple series, often mentioned as JFV (here volume 3). The story is set out for every Jagdgruppe of 40 fighters and for the "Stab" (staff) of 4. The author(s) give, among other information, the numerical strength of all (? - my copy is in a box) engaged Me 109-units at different dates, like 40 on May 9 or 10 (before missions were flown) and, quite typically, 17 about June 10, 14 or 18. I can't be more precise for the moment because my copy of this interesting book is not available right now but if you own a copy yourself you can have a look at these tables of numerical strength. If I remember correctly several Me 109 "Gruppen" had only 17 fighters left around the middle of June and the number of operational pilots (which could be sent into battle) was strongly reduced too, both in spite of received replacement aircraft and pilots. I guess the numerical strength in fighters had been reduced to about 20 or 25 at best on average for all "Gruppen" (40 at the beginning).

This reduction of the numerical strength of Me 109 units is very impressive.

You can also look at the total aircraft losses (destroyed AC only) suffered by the Luftwaffe in both great air campaigns of 1940 according to American historian Williamson Murray:

French Campaign : 1,428
almost exclusively from May 10 through June 15. From June 16 through June 24 only a few aircraft were lost every day, or none at all, on both sides. So the Luftwaffe lost approximately 1,420 AC in 37 days (on average: 1,150 in a month of 30 days)

Battle of Britain (July 10-September 30): 1,636 in 83 days, which is 591 for a month of 30 days.

According to these figures the German loss rate was almost twice as high over France and the Benelux countries as over the UK (in the BoB).

I have to add that Murray's German loss figure for the BoB is by about 200 higher than the usually mentioned figure (1,428, and 1,469 in the French Campaign). This is possibly one of the consequences of using an American translation of German documents. If we use the most frequently published figures the above-mentioned loss rates per month become:

1,191 over France etc.

516 in the BoB.

In this case the German loss rate over France etc. was clearly higher than twice the BoB loss rate.

This does not belittle the achievements of the RAF in the BoB. There the aim was NOT to destroy a maximum number of enemy aircraft but to survive as an operational (usable) air force and still be around in spite of German attacks. This goal was perfectly achieved by the RAF thanks to excellent leaders: Dowding and Park.

It does not belittle the achievements of the RAF in the BoB and it proves that French fighters put up a terrific fight in May-June 1940 for nobody can believe that about 100 Hurricanes and a few Gladiators (!), "Defiants" and Blenheim fighters (! again) (reinforced by more squadrons but they all suffered very high losses) did almost all of the job - supplemented by RAF 11 Group during the 9 days of the Dunkerque air battle. 11 Group had a numerical strength of about 250 fighters (Spitfires too) and Dowding refused to engage more fighters than these above Dunkerque. (Fighter Command then had about 600 fighters.) According to myself the Luftwaffe lost about 90 AC to RAF fighters in the Dunkerque battle (at the same time the fighting went on against the French in other areas) even though optimistic RAF fighter pilots claimed about 400. They fought as best they could and the British soldiers there were very unfair to them, accusing the RAF of doing nothing against the German air attacks which terrorized these terrible warriors. French Fighters for their part still had a numerical strength of 600-800 (I can't be more precise right now).

The 1940 French fighter arm deserves the utmost respect and admiration for its bravery and its outstanding achievements (just as the RAF fighter boys for their achievements both over France etc. and in the BoB). This is quite simply the truth, it is reality - I hope I proved it in the above text. It is about time to admit this fact at last, which does NOT lower other people's merits.

Last edited by rof120; 19th November 2019 at 18:06.