Thread: ors files?
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Old 9th June 2010, 05:53
RodM RodM is offline
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Smile Re: ors files?

Hi Thor,

thanks for the comprehensive reply. I do have some questions:

1. Re: Knight, may I ask where the statement that they were 'hit from below' originates from? In the two questionnaires that Knight completed in the UK upon repatriation, he states: "2 starboard engines and wing set on fire from another aircraft. Aircraft exploded about 2 minutes later - blown out of aircraft - captured several hours later." and "(1) Aircraft was set on fire by fire from another aircraft. (2) Captain ordered put on parachutes crew acknowledged. (3) WOP was burnt but walked O.K. no one baled out. (5) No one left the aircraft captain gave abandon aircraft and it exploded immediately. (b) Fire started 17,000' Explosion above 10,000' (7) Captain was still flying the aircraft under difficulty - fire was spread over wing (star'b) and cabin next Nav and Wop positions."

Please note that Knight stated that the aircraft exploded above 10,000 feet, not at 10,000 feet, as I misquoted in my previous post. It appears that LM742 was only hit once before exploding in mid-air. Knight simply had the fortune to be blown out of the aircraft with his parachute on. It would seem from Knight's statements that the crew did not bale out because the aircraft exploded before they could do so, not because the aircraft was too low. The fact that a witness saw a 'combat overhead' does not disprove or prove the possibility of friendly fire. I would assume that the witness saw air-to-air tracer and simply intrepreted that as 'combat'. The question obviously is, who fired? Knight's statement that they were hit by 'another aircraft' would not form the basis for the BC ORS assessment, they had to have some other evidence, otherwise they would have assessed the cause of loss as 'fighter'.

2. With regards to Borchers (who you'll be aware died before the end of the war), do you know if the claims details come from an authentic, documented source, or has someone 'filled in the gaps'. The only publically available details available on his claims come from the Kriegstagebuch of III./NJG5, and that simply states that he made three claims without any other details. The same entry in the Kriegstagebuch also states that Hptm. Werner Hopf claimed three and Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Breitfeld two, again without providing details. I only mention this to distinguish from what is based on available evidence and what is less reliable supposition.

While it is more than likely that LM742 was shot down by a night fighter, the BC ORS assessment provides a contrary view. Without knowing upon what evidence they based their assessment, then no judgement can be made as to its validity. Sadly, it may be that the preserved body of documentation will not provide the answer. As already mentioned, some Form Zs are missing and most of the Bomber Command non-Mosquito combat reports for 1945 are also missing. From the Interception Tactics Report it is clear that no returning RAF crew specifically witnessed the demise of an aircraft to a night fighter in the area that LM742 crashed.

Cheers

Rod

Oh, I forgot to mention that a German Luftgau crash report exists for LM742, it's number is KE 10143 - it is mentioned in the MRES Investigation Report. It would state the German assessment on the cause of loss. Sadly, this document is most probably still held by the British MoD and remains classified.
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