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Old 26th March 2010, 18:53
RT RT is offline
Alter Hase
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 3,627
RT is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Re NAGr.13 let me start a new thread

Are there no NVM's for the Stab/N.A.Gr.13 for the relevant dates?

Maybe there are but I don’t hv them…

07.06.1944 You refer to Bf 109 WNr 161117 being gone from the strength return. This does not directly imply a loss in my opinion, looking at the 'Bestand and Bewegungsmeldung' for the unit in June 1944 we see that they at one point transferred at least one Bf 109G-5 and two Bf 109G-6 out of the unit for overhaul. Wnr 161117 could have been one of those.

The two G-6 transferred were 200044+710044 from 1. to 3.NAGr.13
On the report of the 8. june evening the 161117 is given as shot-down in action, as not reported on 6.june date of loss is 7. or 8. June

10.06.1944 Could you explain what this entry really mean?

Plane BF109G-6 shot down by enemy in Normandy on 10.june no other details , but explicitly GIVEN AS LOST AT ENNEMY

Rest of the entries more or less match in my opinion, taking into account for example that an update might have been posted with regards to personnel injuries at a point AFTER the summary report was made.

I will try to enter these losses into the database and post the results for your approval.

Matches very nicely


Seems that WNr 710067 is referenced twice on different dates very close to each other. Could you explain what your sources are and how the information was presented?

It is also possible that the aircraft you have on 4.6.1944 was really lost on 5.6.1944, and that the date was updated later (as we see numerous times), as you seem to have no loss on the 5th?

I could send you the doc, explicitily given on report of 6.june as crash-landed after being shot-up by enemy for sure could be your loss of the 5.june, you are right the second entry the same plane but given by workshop quite one month later

I think that the two aircraft you have on the 12th is one and the same, only that one of the references got one digit of the WNr wrong.

2 Planes Explicitly given as lost to P51 ON 12TH , both Wn are documented with NAGr.13 in may 44

Could you please check the dates for the aircraft you have listed for June 27th? Strange that the total for my losses listed on 27th and 29th is the same as yours for 27th, and you have none for the 29th.

FI156C-3 1367
BF109G-8 710064

The date of the loss very very unclear but prior for sure, report date !
162071 is wrong date is 27.July name Rühle, to blame the site giving the losses on Normandy
So probably the only good entry concerning the date is the Wn 161369
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