[Kapper]

Guys,

From what I can find, the first edition of Tolliver’s & Constables ‘Horrido’ was published in 1968, which to me, make’s Obermaier’s book on Ritterkreuztragers that was first published in 1966 the more likely original source of many of the quoted scores. Though both books have been republished several times since, there seems to have been no real amendments – so the age of these works should give some indication as to reliability of data especially when many records didn’t surface until many years later.

Anyway, if you read the Obermaier’s book carefully, in many cases he uses such words as at least, possible, probable and about, which unfortunately, several authors have since taken various liberties of his works to quote these as definitive. (It also has several obvious errors including typos.)

For example, using Johannes example of Fassong, Obermaier stated that Fassong had “at least 75 but he probably gained about 136” – so nearly every list since is quoting 136 not the 75. Depending on who’s research you follow, we now know that around 60-70 can be identified as confirmed in various documents. It is possible that he had 75 confirmed claims and that is probably the correct figure. I’m not sure where Obermaier got 136 from – maybe someone quoted this but as Obermaier didn’t have any hard evidence, he then said probably – who knows? I have not seen 136 quoted in any document prior to Obermaiers 1966 book. The 136 total that is used has no hard proof except what is quoted in Obermaiers book as probable?

As to Tanzer, I find the quoted total in Obermaier’s work very interesting. Obermaier states that Tanzer received the RK at 35 victories which is in line with recent research. However, he also stated that Tanzer had 143 victories (incl 17 x 4 engined bombers in the west) in 723 missions including 187 fighter bomber sorties. (some sources quote 128 for the East which I think came from this with 143 – 17). I find these numbers are too precise to have been estimates or quoted in here-say – especially the mission totals? As Johannes stated, Tanzer flew operationally from March 42 to May 43 when wounded to make his 35 claims and receive the RK. It’s the claims after this that cannot be supported by recent research. Tanzer recovered from his wounds in November 1943 but had limited opportunity until late in the war, so it’s unlikely that he made 108 claims in the last 3 months of the war. As Tanzer died in a plane crash in 1960, it’s possible but unlikely he was sourced by Obermaier for his book - so all this tend to make me think that some form of written documentation had survived (and was in misinterpreted?). What did Obermaier have to give such precise figures I’d love to know? I have seen no evidence surface to date that would support such figures!

This is not a shot at Obermaier as his work was ground breaking in 1966 – we have learnt a lot since then. The whole point of this is that if we can find Obemaier’s records/notes for his book we would be able to clear up this issue and many more by finding where Obermaier got his information from and how reliable the source would have been!

Regards,

Craig…