View Single Post
  #40  
Old 6th May 2006, 21:27
Skyraider3D's Avatar
Skyraider3D Skyraider3D is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 441
Skyraider3D is on a distinguished road
Re: Late-war Bf 109 question

Pete, you would be surprised the kind of details Bill Lyons remembers. I think the case is that many pilots simply distinguished no more than two piston engined fighters. Anything with a radial engine was a Focke-Wulf and anything with an inline engine was a Messerschmitt
On 18 March 1945 the 359th FG found out the hard way that this way of identification was rather limited when they shot down a number of Yak-9s ("Me 109s") and La-5FNs ("Fw 190s"). But that's a different story altogether


Andreas, thanks. I assume you don't have the Kennzeichen for this second Dora then?
Below if a list of all Fw 190 claims in the area for that day. Could you possibly counter this list with all Fw 190 losses (both A and D). It would be good to see how these claims match up.
In bold the claims which are close to Bill Lyon's location.

355th FG/354th FS - Capt J E Duffy - 1x Fw 190 destroyed - SW of Berlin
355th FG/357th FS - Lt E P Ludeke - 1x Fw 190 destroyed - Brandenburg (Ludeke was Lyon's flight leader)
479th FG/434th FS - Capt G W Gleason - 1x Fw 190 destroyed - SE of Magdeburg (he also got an Me 109)
479th FG/434th FS - Lt R D Creighton - 1x Fw 190 probable - SE of Magdeburg (he also destroyed an Me 109)
479th FG/435th FS - Maj H H Jordan - 1x Fw 190 destroyed - W of Brandenburg
479th FG/435th FS - Cap N R Benoit - 1x Fw 190 destroyed - SW of Brandenburg

The Fw 190 losses we have thusfar:

Fw 190 D-9 - 6/JG 301 - Obfw Max Sulzgruber - 210905 - Red 5 - Grieben (= N of Magdeburg)
Fw 190 D-9 - II/JG 301 - Helmut Brenner (KIA) - 210909 or 211909 - Kennzeichen unknown - location unknown
Fw 190 A-9 - 8/JG 301 - Lt Karl-Heinz Müller (KIA) - 207202 - Blue 5 - location unknown



This is premature, I know, but if we go by the assumption that JG 301 fought in the same area (roughly north of Magdeburg) and two of their number were shot down by the 435th FS then the third could be Lyon's. Brenner's Dora is the most likely possibility, as Lyons victim was KIA. Ludeke (Lyon's flight leader) Fw 190 was scored further east, while all 434th FS claims seem to be in the Belzig area where lots of JG 300 Me 109s crashed. To be sure, Ludeke did not participate in Lyon's air battle but apparently took part in a bigger scrap further to the east.


Thanks again all, both on-board and off-board. I feel we might just be able to crack this egg
__________________
Please visit my aviation art gallery @ www.aviationart.aero
or view my work on Facebook @ www.facebook.com/aviationart.aero

Reply With Quote