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Old 17th May 2019, 20:53
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Galland’s victories on June 3, 1940 (Paris area) – A new element

Dear Moderators, we all have been tired indeed, but do allow me just this last answer.

I do promiss this is my last post here for quite a time...


Dear Yves (ROF 120)

Just to quote or share a saying from a book from my Country: “Your heart speaks so loud that I can not hear what you say".

Most of us are already fathers or grandfathers here and; apparently, from what I see on some of your threads on this Forum and the information that cames from your blog, you seems to have been very well Educated (fluent in several languages, etc.).

In spite of that, on your first thread about Galland’s claims you did not apologized for a well known German writer and member of this Forum/Board. You also did not apologized for the other members either, the way the thread started. You had the opportunity to do so.
Quoting your last message: “Why didn't you, or your father, tell them?”

We do not need to go this low as civilized persons, do we?

I do guess (supposition) that we all here on this Forum do have the same passion for Aeronautical and Military History. That’s what links us, in spite of our social, economical, cultural, ethnical, religious, birthday dates, Historical knowledge, backgrounds and differences.

I do believe that my previous thread was questioning Historical evidences that could or should have supported your theory for those two claims of one of the greatest Aviators of History. Period.

As far as I see or even re-reading what I posted, I have not:

a) offended you personally;
b) offended or mentioned any member of your Family directly.

Do you see, my late father passed away some years ago. He was my greatest friend and Example in life. He concluded his Ph.D in France, enabling us, as Family to live (4 years), to know and to visit your country, from North to South; which we consider one of the greatest experiences we had in life, as Human Beings. It is a lovely country indeed and we do love it as ours.

I remember meeting (like you met Galland) a former Eichenlaubträger (I may made some mistakes in German, sorry…my knowledge of this Language is near zero indeed as you pointed on your answer). He remembered me a combat against a Short Stirling that he shot down on a precise date he informed me, at night. He clearly remembered the tail separating from the fuselage of this British four-engined bomber and everything falling out. Well, he showed me the Bomber Command War Diaries (Middlebrook work) informing that “his” claim was not there, on the date he said he claimed it. This extensive book was deeply researched cross-checked with the ORB(s) and several archives. So, there was NO Stirling loss that night…

His own memory of this combat was so clear to me…but after some 51 years after the end of WW2, was his memory so clear regarding the precise date of this combat?

For some of us who fly or flew, both as civilian or military pilots, can we remember our 10th solo flight precisely? How many landings had we done on that 10th solo? What about the wind? We may remember the 1st solo, surely…it is something one do never forget in one’s life…but what we did on the 10th solo…after some 23 years, personally I don’t. Unless one’s do write a Diary (like Mouchotte for instance), we may remember precise events (maybe without dates), not a fully career in crescent order.

What I want to express here Yves is that:
Even if you interviewed him (Galland or his Wingman), or reviewed with Galland himself all his list of victories, during your visit in Germany; Galland’s memory, after thousands of combats and flights; circa of 100 hundred plus victories could have been affected by the time…One’s tend to mix events or things, if we do not have notes, a Logbook on our side, or additional data on our side.

Please do let me share with you this passage from an Academic Historian. Not being a professional translator, I indeed humbly used online translation for that purpose. It may contain mistakes and am sorry for that. The British and American born can correct me, or this sentence below, if it contains mistakes:

"Historical knowledge is necessarily based on testimonies or documents: "Pas de documents, pas d'Histoire". Now, in order to give them credit, I must prove three things: 1. That the documents communicate to me a certain event: it is the examination of reality 2. That the witness has been in favorable conditions to know the truth of the communicated fact: it is the question of the competence of the source 3. That the witness has no reason to lie: it is the question of the sincerity of the source. "(Van Den Besselaar, p.44 - 1974)

So, Yves, without documents, we will go nowhere regarding those Galland’s claims. Maybe you managed to interview the French pilot who survived or Galland’s wingman….do not know. Why your secret source is so secret that you can not share it here?

Yes, I knew that some of the LW archives were either buried or destroyed (this Gruppenkommandeur I met twice, back in 1996, told me he ordered his Gruppe Archives to be buried to not fall in Allied hands). I wrongly thought that, maybe, General Galland had the chance to save some documents that you could have had the chance or opportunity either to photograph or scan or see; like one of his Abschussmeldungen (thanks for correcting me) or you could have found a French Air Force combat report supporting your theory for the 3rd June 1940, etc…

This is why I, like other members of the Forum asked for documents or evidences previously.

Wish you and yours a nice week, in health and peace.

Most humble and sincerely yours,
Adriano Silva Baumgartner, ASV 00.344