[RodM]

Hello Gentlemen,

a very belated thanks for the replies.

I guess we are no closer to understanding the documentary basis on the Welter data contained in Reschke.

Of the two photos, the one of Welter by the tail is quite possibly a PK-produced image, whereas the second photo is unlikely to be a PK-produced image. I mention this because there is the possibility of the tail image having accompanied a propaganda article published on Welter. I have no direct evidence of this but a PK piece published in Nov/Dec 1944 mentions:

"...for within only a few weeks the number of victories exceeded the number of missions flown. After eleven missions he had shot down fourteen terror-bombers..."


Welter's Wehrpass mentions 17 victories in 15 missions by April 1944.

Neil, Fritz Gniffke's recollections are certainly interesting and detailed, but I wonder if he has got the dates right - I simply do not know the answer to that.... If he had 11 victories by the end of December 1943, then 2 x claims in Feb 44 and 1 x claim in Mar 44 would take his total to 14 by mid-April (whereas his Wehrpass indicates 17 by mid-April) and the three un-named confirmed claims from Jan 44, attributed to Welter by Reschke would be incorrect.


In looking at the victory list as reproduced by Johnannes, I will say the following:

1. Care must be taken to differentiate between claims that can be proven to exist via documentary evidence and those of unknown or dubious provenance.

For example, the BAMA films transcribed by Tony Woods et al have claims where Welter is mentioned by name, whereas the claims from January 1944 do not mention him by name, but several un-named confirmed claims have been attributed to Welter by post-war researchers (Reschke) based upon unknown evidence.

2. Sadly, many, many of the late war claims listed are pure Bulls**t. By this I mean that they have nothing to do with the Luftwaffe or Welter himself, but were invented from thin-air by post-war researchers for reasons I will not go in to here.

3. It is the BS from point 2 above that has complicated research on Welter, and these bogus claims are still being published in English-language works at least.

For example, compare Johannes' list with the following, which has solid provenance:

The date and circumstances of the first Welter Me 262 claim have not been reliably documented or proven, but various authors (Ring, Boehme, Jurleit) each provide a different date for this claim! Only Jurleit offers indirect evidence: a memo of unknown provenance that isn't quoted verbatim in his published works and, quite frankly, could relate to some type of success other than the actual claiming of an Abschuss.

Delete all January 1945 claims. A memo from June 1945 by Welter (made for his British captors), and a report by Fritz Wendel from Feb 1945 (the latter as reproduced verbatim by Jurleit) both make it clear that while with Kdo Welter, Welter made five victory claims. Four of these claims can be proven to have occurred in mid-January 1945 (and are not on Johannes' list). Sadly, I cannot post the details of these four known claims here as they'll be published in the 2nd Ed of The Nachtjagd War Diaries in a couple of years time.

Of the remainder of the claims, many are pure BS, especially most of those in April 1945.

There are several documentary sources that can confirm the existence of 10./NJG11 claims, including those certainly and possibly made by Welter (not to be confused with sircher (certain) and wahrscheinlicher (probable) claims as detailed below), chief among these sources are the Reich Luftlagemeldungen from OKL FueSt Ic for Feb-Apr 1945, held at the BA/MA in RL 2 III:

3 x certain claims on 21/22 Feb 45 - confirmed as claimed by Welter in an ULTRA signal.

2 x certain and 1 x probable claims made on 2/3 Mar 45 - no direct provenance to Welter by most-likely made by him as this is a period where only single night-time sorties were flown by 10./NJG11, and the scant Flugbuch evidence available has no other pilots flying night-time sorties yet.

2 x certain claims on 21/22 Mar 45 - Luftlagemeldung indicates 2 sorties and three claims made. Becker Abschussmeldung proves that he flew one of the sorties and made one claim. The documentation supporting his claim proves that Welter was the second pilot airborne and he thus must have made the other two claims.

1 x probable claim on 23/24 Mar 45, 1 x certain claim on 24/25 Mar 45, 1 x certain claim on 27/28 Mar 45, 3 x certain claims on 30/31 mar 45, 1 x certain claim on 2/3 Apr 45, 1 x certain claim on 3/4 Apr 45, and 2 x certain claims on 19/20 Apr 45 are proven by the Luftlagemeldungen to have been made by 10./NJG11 and not proven to have been claimed by other pilots (Becker et al). There is no direct evidence that Welter made any of these claims and they could have been claimed by other pilots of the unit. 10./NJG11 pilots Czypionka and Lamm have both indicated in post-war interviews/articles that they each claimed on 27/28 Mar 45 (two claims made on this night, one of which can be proven to have been made by Becker). Also, Welter did state post-war to British interrogators that he shot down one Mosquito and damaged another on 3/4 Apr 45 (one of which was really claimed by Altner and not Welter, as proven by the Abschussmeldung).

On all other Feb-Apr 1945 dates given by Johannes, either the Reich Luftlagemeldungen make it clear that 10./NJG11 was flying but made no claims, or there is no mention of sorties having been made by 10./NJG11...

Cheers

Rod