[Marius]

Hi all and Franek,
I will continue some discussion points...



Skalski over the war never colourised his reports. All his claims, but two - one damaged and one probable, from the Battle of Britain can be linked to the German losses. His later claims cannot be all verified because of losses of documents on the German side. There are several his 'claims' that were not claimed by him due to lack of evidence, I think a total of about five or more aircraft. One Skalski's claim was downgraded although it seems it is confirmed by the German losses. Another was not credited to him by no apparent reason.

I don`t know what Skalski did later in the war. We are discussing here about the beginning of it, first combats and losses... Skalski`s kills in Poland can be verified and I have done it. I`m very sorry that there is no confirmation for his several kills. But on the other side you can see what it means to be an ace. One pilot reported about 5 kills, but the aircraft remained slightly damaged. The other reported about 5 kills and the aircraft in fact crashed on the ground. An American pilot destroyed 5 aircraft on the ground. Are they all aces?
For example there was a Polish pilot in the Pursuit Brigade. His name is Januszewicz (he commanded in Poland the 111 eskadra). He made 3 kills and all 3 are confirmed by German documentation. On the other hand Gnys of 121 eskadra. He claimed 2 Do 17 on 1.9.1939. But in the war diary of KG 77 you will read that the airplanes collided due to anti-aircraft fire. As I heard from the Polish historians there is a document in London describing the loss of both aircraft by a Polish anti-aircraft unit. But this is another story....




A very important point is that all the reports filed in 1939 are the reports done just after the sorties. Most of the surviving ones, eg. from RAF or USAAF that are known to researchers were wrote by IOs a few days after actual sorties. There is no comparison.


Therefore they are very reliable. Haste or something other has nothing to do with it.


Quote:
According to the Bf 110 on the photo. I suppose it was the aircraft flown by Major Huth transferring with his unit to Griesslienen on the 4.9. The Bordfunker Josef Schauster was talking about this accident in Jägerblatt many years ago. The damage is indeed considerable. And apparently the aircraft was on fire as stated by Schauster.


The photo does not show any trace of fire. It shows considerable damage to the fuselage but I cannot say it was enough to consider it as a write off.


The quality of your photo may be poor. I have one where you can see the wet ground (more darkened earth) under the wing and fuselage. I think due to water or something like that.


Quote:
You believe that I./ZG 1 lost on 2.9. more aircraft than found in the actual known documents. So how will you explain the only total loss of 12 Bf 110 for the period September 1939 as documented on many other staff levels?


I do not believe anything. I expect you to nail down the aircraft shot up by Skalski. As long as you cannot do it, I do no take your comments that nothing happenned to it.


This is much too less. You must have some trace of an aircraft wreck or the name of a wounded or downed pilot or something else. Just a simple claim in Polish documents is not enough.
By the way, German documents as for example of Fliegerdivision 1 are reporting about the lost Bf 110 and a further slightly wounded Bordfunker. Do you mean German documents would report about something less important as slightly wounded aircrew and nothing more about other missing aircraft or even wounded or killed pilots? You are on the wrong way.



Quote:
I will list these aircraft below (total losses):
2.9. 1 Bf 110 of I./ZG 1, 2 Bf 110 of I./ZG 76
3.9. 3 Bf 110 of I.(Z)/LG 1 (1 to German Flak)
4.9. 1 Bf 110 of I.(Z)/LG 1, 1 Bf 110 of I./ZG 1 (Huth landing accident)
6.9. 1 Bf 110 of I./ZG 1
7.9. 1 Bf 110 of I.(Z)/LG 1
9.9. 1 Bf 110 of I./ZG 76 (accident?)
17.9. 1 Bf 110 of I./ZG 76
12 at all, 3 in accidents or by friendly AA fire. No place for more totally destroyed Bf 110`s.


How about aircraft of Hammes and Nagel? Were they write offs or not? Hammes' aircraft looks almost untouched, I have seen more damaged aircraft returned to flying condition.


Perhaps they looked "untouched", but we know they were shot down and the damage was considerable even if not to see on the photos. I am sure they were treated as total losses.


There is also a photo of burned out Me 110 taken from an overflying aircraft, have you identified this one?

Do it yourself. Take my book Jagdflieger and try to find it. You can not exclude that it was an aircraft of 12 mentioned above.

Marius