Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik
Nick
What Johannes means with an "honest guy" is that he cannot see any pattern of trying to falsify his claims.
There is a lot overclaiming by the "honest guys" as well, on ALL sides.
Many years ago, I listened to a TV interview with Schroer and he came out as very, very honest in my mind.
Cheers
Stig
|
Stig,
I know perfectly well what Johannes means. I acknowledge the outstanding work that he has done checking the German victory claims microfilms and acknowledge the very good work that his aces biographies represents.
However, on the basis of evidence, I am inclined to disagree with him on Schroer being an overly-honest pilot, particularly when it comes to claims against Viermots:
4.11.42/121
B-24 Liberator
Between Sollum and Benghazi
Halverson detachment? Overclaiming? Can't find an attibutable loss
5.5.43/1500
B-24D Liberator
NW of Marettimo
Overclaiming, no losses this date
9.5.43/1310
B-24 Liberator
1km E of Capo Gallo
Appears to be overclaiming, several were damaged this date but on a later raid
OR, IF A MISIDENTIFICATION/MISATTRIBUTION OR OTHER ERROR:
B-17F 42-5147 “Old Ironsides” damaged by fighter and collided with 41-24415 (both of 414th BS, 97th BG. Both crews all safe except one man baled out MIA). One other attributed to flak with crew all KIA, one forcelanded after Flak hit and 21 others lesser damage attributed to Flak
11.5.43/1214
B-17 Flying Fortress
25km S of Marsala @ 3000m
Overclaiming, no losses this date
18.5.43/1345
B-17 Flying Fortress
50km NW of Trapani @ 4500m
Overclaiming, no losses
21.5.43/1121
B-17 Flying Fortress
35km S of Marsala @ 7000m
Overclaiming, no losses
25.5.43/1117
B-17F Flying Fortress
40km NW of Marettimo @ 2200m
Losses attributed to fighters include B-17F-25-BO 41-24576 of 341st BS, 97th BG, 1/Lt. William Albright and 7 others safe, 1 WIA and 1 MIA. 49th BS, 2nd BG had 42-29638 damaged and forcelanded at Bizerta. 2/Lt. William J Valentine and six safe, three WIA. Possibly to fighters: B-17F-30-DL 42-3174 "Thunderbird" of 416th BS, 99th BG, Capt. Robert E L Goad and crew all KIA
347th BS had 42-29489 "Persuader" and 42-29490 "Axis Ass Ache" both damaged, crews safe
31.5.43/1444
B-17F-25-VE Flying Fortress
WNW (300 deg) of Trapani @ 100m
(Kampe, Kapp and Buschek also claimed)
Only loss was 42-5831 "The Virgin" of 32nd BS, 97th BG. 1/Lt. Victor J Lewin and six others safe, two or three (sources vary) KIA
15.6.43/0823
B-17F Flying Fortress
2km W Favignana @ 3600m
No mention of any B-17 losses. Overclaiming
11.7.43/1320
B-24 Liberator
into the sea 25km S of Crotone @ 5500m
Overclaiming, no losses to fighters (only loss was due to an accident)
16.7.43/1300 and 1315
2 x B-24D Liberators
SW of Santeramo in Colle/WSW of Bari
11 claims for just three losses in total:
42-40649/73 of 514th BS, 376th BG. 1/Lt. Samuel D Rose and eight others baled out POW, one man KIA
42-40236 "Fyrtle Myrtle" of 513th BS, 376th BG. 1/Lt. Charlie G Hinson and six others KIA, 3 POW
42-40110/53 "Pink Lady" of 513th BS, 376th BG. 1/Lt. Roger Smith Jr and four others POW, 1 returned and 3 POW
23.7.43/1410
B-17 Flying Fortress
20km N of Stromboli
Overclaiming, no losses
6.9.43/1108
B-17F-35-VE Flying Fortress HSS
S of Echterdingen/E of Geislingen (N of Neu Ulm) @ 6000m
Attributed by some sources as 42-5942 "Sky Shy/Wenatchee Special" of 563rd BS, 388th BG. Pilot named M Bowen. 1 KIA, 1 DOW and 8 POW. Legitimate victory
24.5.44/1140 and 1145
B-17G-20-BO Flying Fortress
near Wittstock
Likely claimed against 42-31534/LN-N "Shilaylee" of 350th BS, 100th BG. 1/Lt. Francis J Malooly and crew all POW (came down at Goericke, 19 miles SW of Wittstock)
Some of the absent claims I have yet to attribute to losses or determine as overclaims
But in any case, I hope I have presented acceptable evidence as to why I disagree with Johannes' belief that Schroer might be a contender for the top destroyer of real Viermots, and why I disagree that he was an overly honest claimer as some of his non-Viermot claims are equally questionable
...and I really don't think it matters how honest he happened to look in television interviews. It's evidence that decides. On the basis of evidence, I don't think he was overly honest.
Nick