View Single Post
Old 26th February 2017, 22:04
Paul Thompson Paul Thompson is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 421
Paul Thompson is on a distinguished road
Re: MiG vs USAF and USN?

Hello John,

I am not at all sure that the information has been presented on the forum, or indeed elsewhere. Below are two relevant extracts from books, which do not fully answer your question.

Page 71 of F-4 Phantom II vs MiG-21: USAF & VPAF in the Vietnam War by Peter Davies:

"Comparing kill-loss statistics remains difficult. Both sides employed rigorous checking procedures for each claim before awarding kills, but there are still many disparities. For example, the VPAF claimed to have shot down 74 USAF F-4s, but only 27 of these "victories" actually match up with US statistics, including 17 F-4Es downed in June–September 1972. The USAF accepted that it lost 50 aircraft to MiG-21s from August 23, 1967 through to December 28, 1972, of which 36 were Phantom IIs.

Confusingly, in some cases, MiG pilots made no official claim for F-4s whose crews later said that they had been hit by missiles fired by MiG-21s. Conversely, on many other occasions "Fishbed" pilots claimed F-4s that surviving USAF crews attributed to SAMs or AAA."

Page 84 of US Navy F-4 Phantom II Mig Killers 1965-70 by Brad Elward and Peter Davies:

“While statistics can often be misleading, no true coverage of the 1965 to 1970 aerial battles can be complete without at least presenting them for discussion. From the Navy’s standpoint, F-4 units were officially credited with 12 VPAF MiGs, one Communist Chinese MiG and two VPAF An-2 cargo aircraft during Rolling Thunder and into 1970 – a further two MiG kills have since been recognised. In return, five (and possibly as many as seven) Phantom IIs were lost – four (or six) to the VPAF and one to the Communist Chinese.

Computing the official figures, Navy Phantom IIs tallied a 3.25-to-1 kill ratio versus VPAF MiGs and, if the 9 April 1965 engagement with the Chinese is included, that overall ratio becomes 2.8-to-1. Adding in the two An-2s modifies this number further to 3.2-to-1. As one can see, regardless of the numbers used to form the ratio, the results were not encouraging, nor were they in line with historical figures experienced in World War 2 or in Korea."

Warm regards,

Reply With Quote