Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > The Second World War in General

The Second World War in General Please use this forum to discuss other World War Two related subjects not covered by the main categories.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 10th April 2023, 16:03
HGabor HGabor is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,208
HGabor has a spectacular aura aboutHGabor has a spectacular aura about
Re: The first ace to reach a certain score

Thank you Nick, I just try to find out what really happened in the past with all available evidences. That's all.
Cheers,
Gabor
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12th April 2023, 09:56
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,884
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: The first ace to reach a certain score

In a few cases the dates are missing which makes it harder to verify a claim and even harder to negate it.
For example Hartmann's #347.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12th April 2023, 12:33
HGabor HGabor is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,208
HGabor has a spectacular aura aboutHGabor has a spectacular aura about
Re: The first ace to reach a certain score

If the date is missing, it is equally difficult to prove, or disprove a claim, - neither is harder than the other. However, there are visible tendencies for each pilot.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12th April 2023, 13:14
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,884
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: The first ace to reach a certain score

Sometimes also the claimed aircraft type is unknown, for example Hartmann's #346.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12th April 2023, 13:33
HGabor HGabor is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,208
HGabor has a spectacular aura aboutHGabor has a spectacular aura about
Re: The first ace to reach a certain score

Agree.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 13th April 2023, 10:49
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,884
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: The first ace to reach a certain score

Hartmann claimed a large number of Lavochkin fighters but a low number of Yakovlev fighters. I suspect he misidentified many Yakovlev's as LaGG-3's. They looked similar but the former were much more numerous in the second half of the war than the latter.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 13th April 2023, 13:14
HGabor HGabor is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,208
HGabor has a spectacular aura aboutHGabor has a spectacular aura about
Re: The first ace to reach a certain score

In the final months of 1944 Hartmann fought with air units of the Soviet 5th Air Army (and perhaps the 17th Air Army). By the end of 1944 the 5 VA suffered heavy losses in their battles for Debrecen and Budapest, while the 17 VA was more or less intact, advancing in Yugoslavia and later in Southern-Hungary.

On January 1, 1945 the fighter forces of the 5 VA had:

83 Yak-1
109 Yak-9
16 Yak-3
130 La-5
20 La-7

(Book: 'Verified Victories', p.25)

The 17 VA had:

117 Yak-1
13 Yak-7
147 Yak-9
58 Yak-3
273 La-5
1 La-7

(Book: 'Verified Victories', p.27)

Gabor
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 13th April 2023, 13:54
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,884
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: The first ace to reach a certain score

When Hartmann arrived at the front the short heyday of the LaGG-3 was over. But the Germans kept on identifying similarly-looking opponents as such. It's like Manfred von Richthofen & Co who named lattice-tail planes "Vickers" when certainly no Vickers F.B.5 planes were sent up anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 30th September 2024, 22:08
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,884
knusel is on a distinguished road
Re: The first ace to reach a certain score

Good evening,

update: I drop Eugène Gilbert from the list in the first post because only four of his claims were officially confirmed (although he likely shot down more than he was credited with). I also include Herbert Ihlefeld, who was the first to reach the scores of 116 and 117 in April 1942.

Have a nice evening,

Michael
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ace High UncleGeorge Allied and Soviet Air Forces 0 8th June 2015 01:36
Korean Ace passes John Beaman Obituaries 0 20th May 2009 15:47
Ace vs. Ace Rob Romero Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 36 28th May 2007 07:57
15th Air Force Me 262 aerial claims? Pathfinder Allied and Soviet Air Forces 7 28th February 2007 20:10
Ace vs. Ace Rob Romero Allied and Soviet Air Forces 0 11th November 2006 01:03


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net