Mosquito speed over Bf 109 and Fw-190

[James A Pratt III]

I am having a disagreement with a friend over weather the DH Mosquito was faster than the Bf 109 and Fw 190. He says the Mosquitp was faster and I say it isn't. The only book in the local library dealing with all WW II combat aircraft is missing. This is why I am making this post. I know the PR Mosquitos were hard for the BF 109 to catch up with at high altitude. I also know the Fw-190A was faster than the Mosquito at low level. Any help would be welcome. Thanks in advance.

[Graham Boak]

No, it wasn't generally faster. We could spend a lot of time listing all the possible performance parameters of each and every possible version of all three types, without coming to any better conclusion. However, the speed advantage was small, making interception a difficult problem once the associated matters of height and relative position come into play, particularly for the later 2-stage PR variants.

However, the initial bomber Mosquitos were withdrawn from low-level missions because the loss rate was higher than that of the Blenheims previously used. On deeper penetrations, true, but nonetheless difficult to reconcile with any major speed advantage.

[Revi16]

Here are the performance charts for each aircraft, but as Graham has stated hundreds of variables.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/

[Larry]

Another thing to remember in air warfare is that a Bf109 or Fw190 would need to close any gap between itself and the Mosquito especially if it had just been scrambled to defend a certain area.

Or to put it in simple terms if a fighter was 25 mph faster than the Mosquito bomber and the Mosquito was 25 miles away at altitude heading for home, how long would it take Bf109 or Fw190 to catch up with it.

Answers on a post card please!

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Larry

Another thing to remember in air warfare is that a Bf109 or Fw190 would need to close any gap between itself and the Mosquito especially if it had just been scrambled to defend a certain area.

Or to put it in simple terms if a fighter was 25 mph faster than the Mosquito bomber and the Mosquito was 25 miles away at altitude heading for home, how long would it take Bf109 or Fw190 to catch up with it.

And would your remaining fuel last that long, let alone get you home?

[Bill Walker]

Actually the problem is 3 dimensional: if the fighter had to climb after sighting the Mosquito its 25 mph advantage would go out the window for the duration of the climb. The answer (don't have a postcard handy) is therefore "at least one hour, maybe much more".

The problem can also become geographical: if we start this theoretical chase near the German coast, one hour later can German radar still provide a useful track to the pursuing fighter?

I think a simple answer is that a Mosquito, at altitude, was fast enough to make it very difficult to catch. This is not the same as saying it is faster than an Bf109 or Fw190.

[Boomerang]

Don Caldwell reports a successful interception of a PR Mosquito on 14 Nov 1943 in the JG 26 War Diary Vol 2. The pilot took off at 0939 and the shoot down, at 28,000 feet, took place at 1006. Interceptor was a Fw 190A (A6?).

Caldwell reported that the Mosquito had been tracked on radar for several hours.

So, evidently, an interception was possible if all the variables favoured it. As pointed out earlier, there would have been many variables - the performance of individual aircraft, weather, pilot skill, time and accuracy of radar track, etc. On almost all occasions, interceptions were not effected.

Is there information about the cruising speed of eg PR Mosquitos. Whatever their theoretical maximum speed, I have assumed that, once they had reached their assigned altitude, they would cruise at less than their maximum speed. Perhaps this is a false assumption.

[MarkRS]

The PR Mk VIII had a maximum speed of 436 mph (700 km/h), a cruise speed of 258 mph (415 km/h), a ceiling of 38,000 ft (11,580 m), a range of 2,550 nm (4,100 km), and a climb rate of 2,500 ft per minute (760 m). First flew October 1942.

[andy bird]

Gradually putting factual stories together on PR Mosquitoes written by the aircrew for a forthcoming book: Here is one such story which involves Me 163's and one Me 109.

Kind Regards

Andy Bird

Enjoy . . .



We started our run over Leipzig, and about half way through it, I saw two thick trails very near the ground, but coming up extremely fast. Identifying them as Me 163 trails. I called my navigator to his seat, jettisoned the long-range drop tanks, turned 90° to starboard, opened up both engines fully, and in a slight dive attaining an I.A.S., of 260 mph (T.A.S., 460 mph).
Within a few minutes of the initial sighting of the 163’s they were slightly above and behind us, one on each side. They attacked simultaneously one from port one from starboard, up setting my plan of a turning duel, so I did a half roll, and a screaming dive for the pine trees, attaining an I.A.S., 480 mph (T.A.S., 650 mph), pulling out of the dive at 12,000 feet.
The aircraft come out of it nicely, only to fine three more Me 163’s on our tail, one on each side and one directly behind. All three were slightly above in range and firing, so I went into a spiral dive right down on the deck to 20 feet, we lost the enemy aircraft with this evasive action.

On leveling out, however, I discovered black smoke was pouring from the starboard engine, which had been hit by cannon shells. The engine was loosing power so I feathered and set course for the Rhine, having no desire to fly back through the same area. Flying across Germany, more or less on the deck level, barely clearing the hilltops, we noticed several farmers and other civilians firing at us with rifles and shotguns. This however did not do any further damage to the aircraft.

After 35 minutes of flight, the navigator, keeping an unprecented lookout, spotted a Me.109, 1,000 yards behind and about 400 feet above. I did some hectic flying down valleys, up hills, and around pine trees and after several minutes lost him.
At the time we made a pinpoint and reckoned ourselves to be 30 miles west of Kassel (158 miles). We carried on, altering course 30° alternatively to port and starboard every five minutes in an attempt to outwit the German DF. After a further 45 minutes, still at ground level, we crossed a small-unidentified town, and met very accurate and severe flak. One shell went through the blade of the feathered propeller, bursting just afterwards and wounding the navigator in the right leg. Several piece of shrapnel were found in his leg from the knee to the ankle. Damage to the propeller blade caused it to rotate.

Adjusting the trim, a few minutes later we encountered prefrontal cumulus cloud and thank fully flew into 3 to 5/10 of it, climbing to 2,000 feet to do so. Flying in steadily increasing cloud for a further 30 minutes, we saw through a break, several American D.C. 3s and gilders, though no aerodrome. Deciding that we were somewhere near friendly territory, we altered course to 300° and flew on.

[Revi16]

Originally Posted by andy bird

attaining an I.A.S., 480 mph (T.A.S., 650 mph)

You do realize that this part of the story can't be factual?

Originally Posted by andy bird

and in a slight dive attaining an I.A.S., of 260 mph (T.A.S., 460 mph).

and this T.A.S. borders on improbable.