Bomber Crew

[AbbevilleBoy]

Hello,
Always in search of crews and their machines. This weekend I went to Bourdon and I found several clusters of graves. Who can tell me more?

27/08/1942
Fwb Wilhelm HAGEMANN
Fwb Heinz BERGER
Uffz Karl RAUM
Obgf Alfred SMUDA

17/01/1943
Fwb Paul HORSTMANN
Gfr Ewald WILLHÖFT
Gfr Heinrich IHNKEN
Gfr Johann ROTHWEILER

20/06/1943
Gfr Hipolyth KESTNER
Uffz Gerhard LUSCHNER
Uffz Kurt WINTER
Fwb Otfried POHL
Obfw Herbert WINKLER
These can be KG66, fell to Mesnil St. Georges near Montdidier.
Thank you for your help

[Brian Bines]

According to the NVM the 20-6-1943 loss was Do217K 3E+AZ 4462 of 1/KG66. Ff Uffz. Kurt Winter, B Fw. Otfried Pohl, Bf Uffz. Gerhard Luschner, Bf Gef. Hipolyth Kestner, Bm Obfw. Herbert Winkler all killed. Aircraft on Ubungsnachtflug when it was shot down by an enemy nightfighter by Fliegerhorst Montdidier and crashed 5km. wsw of Montdidier at Mesnil St. Georg at 0125 hrs..

[Brian Bines]

GQM list dated 30-8-1942 - 27-8-1942 I/KG77 F Ju88A4 144122 crashed by Poix flew into the ground FF Fw Wilhelm Hagmann, B Fw. Heinz Berger, Bf Ogef Alfred Smuda, Bs Uffz Karl Raum all killed.

GQM list dated 19-1-1943 - 17-1-1943 IV/KG3 F Ju88A5 4322 crashed by Poix Ff Fw Paul Horstmann, B Gef Heinrich Ihnken, Bf Gef. Ewald Willhoft, Bs Gef. Johann Rothweiler all killed,

Regards

Brian Bines

[AbbevilleBoy]

Thank you for all informations. A silly question ... I’m not an expert, what is the lists ADG and NVM ? Where can I find these lists ?

[AbbevilleBoy]

read GQM and NVM

[Brian Bines]

The GQM were the Luftwaffe returns issued on a daily bases showing lost/damaged aircraft and crew names. In the UK they are held on micro-film at the Imperial War Museum and copies can be obtained on CD but the cost is likely to be up to £1000. Although issued daily it can take several months for a loss to be reported on them. Most of 1944/45 are missing and they do not include aircraft with minor damage
The NVM are the Namemliches Verlustmeldung issued at unit levels reporting the death/missing/injury status of crewmen. Sometimes they have aircraft details and cause of loss when known. These are held at the WAST Office Berlin and copies were available for a fee. Currently due to data protection laws they are only available to surviving crewmen or their relatives. When first available they contained personnel details of a crewmen but later ones had these blanked out. Obtaining copies of these used to be a way of obtaining loss details for the missing GQM reports of 1944/45. Quite a few researchers have copies of these on their own individual interest and a lot of the available 44/45 loss details come from these.
There is a project to try to rebuild the missing 44/45 records see http://www.the1944project.com/ additinally books of unit histories such as the JG histories by Dr.Prien do contain late war loss details.

[AbbevilleBoy]

Brian, thank you for all these details. I have not tried to question the Wast ... Again thank you for your advice.
Regards.