Any info on these two Do 17Z's?

[Modeldad]

On the first one I notice a white band on the rear. perhaps a white over-spray out of season. Any info on unit, location and color.

On the second, KG 3 I believe, but where and when?

[obdl3945]

Hi there...

Very interesting photos. First one is perhaps a squadron 'hack' or 'taxi', given the fact that the fuselage codes are entirely alphabetic. It could be from a second-line unit, too. Lack of any visible forward armament in nose/front of cockpit glazing could also support this theory. If fuselage band was white, then uppersurface colour could be a faded sand yellow, suggesting a warm climate... white was theatre marking for the southern front - southern Italy including Sardinia and Sicily, and north Africa, although there are accounts of German aircraft in southern Russia also carrying white bands. Lack of swastika on fin is also intriguing.

Second photo is a machine whose code U5+GW would indicate 12.Staffel of IV.Gruppe/Kampfgeschwader 2 'Holzhammer'. The 'Fist with mallet' unit emblem shown on the nose was KG2's unit marking, and the 'G' would most likely be yellow in colour, with the 'W' indicating 12.Staffel, whose I/D colour was yellow, hence the 'G' being that colour. Propellor spinners tips would have been yellow too. Judging by lack of rear fuselage band and dimension and style of fuselage cross, I would suggest western front, Spring/Summer 1940. IV.Gruppen were the often the training and replacement Gruppe for the rest of a Geschwader, and were sometimes used on operational sorties, but I can't provide a location as such for this one.

Luftwaffe Order of Battle records for 10 May, 1940 state that the other elements of KG2 - Stab, I, II and III. Gruppen - were based in Germany at Ansbach, with the exception of I and III.Gruppen, based at Giebelstadt and Illesheim respectively. Within four months, the Order of Battle for 7 September, 1940 states that Stab and II.Gruppe were based at St Leger, I.Gruppe at Epinoy, and III.Gruppe at Cambrai-Sud, all of which I believe were French bases.