|
Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
||||
|
||||
USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
Hi all !
I am researching the crash of a relative. Was member of JG104. Crased at Mettenheim/Mühldorf Area (Bavaria/Germany) on 25. February 1944. http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...e=50000&icon=x Does someone have data on the location of the following USAAF claims of 25. February 1944 ? fighter group name claim% 37 Mathews Morgan H 1 61 Funcheon Donald M 1 61 Lamb Robert A 1 62 Quirk Michael J 1 83 Dougherty Kenneth W 1 334 Beeson Duane W 1 335 McKennon Pierce W 1 336 Garrison Vermont 1 336 Gentile Don S 1 336 Herter Glenn A 1 343 Giller Edward B 1 352 Marchant William S 0.5 352 Streit William F 0.5 355 Gumm Charles F jr 1 355 Stephens Robert W 1 356 Goodnight Robert E 0.25 356 Miller Thomas F 1.75 356 Mitchell Homer R 0.25 356 O'Connor Frank Q 1 356 Welden Robert D 1.75 362 Becker Robert H 1.5 362 Broadhead Joseph W 1 362 Bron Robert D 1 362 Kehrer Merlin R 1 362 Lingo Arthur M 0.5 362 Pyeatt Alvin F III 1 376 Alcorn Estel C 1 376 Duncan John D 1 376 Lane Howard A 1 379 Abdallah Edward A 0.33 379 Gordon Richard J 0.33 379 Peterson Carrol A 0.33 But maybe alternatively was shot down by a bomber? Strangely this JG104 Me109 took off Herzogenaurach/Nürnberg heading for Regensburg USAAF attack. Was last seen Kehlheim/Riedenburg area involved in air battle. http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...=200000&icon=x But crashed more than 100 km SW to this battle area! Why? Any help appreciated, bye FrankieS |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
Hello,
Here what i found and hope this could help. 37 Mathews Morgan H 1 61 Funcheon Donald M 1 61 Lamb Robert A 1 :Landau 62 Quirk Michael J 1 : Homburg 83 Dougherty Kenneth W 1 : Boekingen 334 Beeson Duane W 1 : Beckingen 335 McKennon Pierce W 1 : S Luxembourg 336 Garrison Vermont 1 / Luxembourg area (FW 190) 336 Gentile Don S 1 : 20 km SE Luxembourg 336 Herter Glenn A 1 : See Gentile, same area 343 Giller Edward B 1 : Me 410 5 miles SE Augsburg 352 Marchant William S 0.5 352 Streit William F 0.5 355 Gumm Charles F jr 1 : 25 km E of Munich (Me 109 dam) + Furth (Nurnberg area) 355 Stephens Robert W 1 : Furth (see Gum) 356 Goodnight Robert E 0.25 356 Miller Thomas F 1.75 : Manheim 356 Mitchell Homer R 0.25 : Manheim 356 O'Connor Frank Q 1 : 50 miles NE of Manheim 356 Welden Robert D 1.75 : Manheim 362 Becker Robert H 1.5 : Regensburg (x2 twin engines) 362 Broadhead Joseph W 1 : Regensburg 362 Bron Robert D 1 362 Kehrer Merlin R 1 : Ju 88 W of Schweinfurt 362 Lingo Arthur M 0.5 : 50 miles W of Regensburg 362 Pyeatt Alvin F III 1 : Regensburg 376 Alcorn Estel C 1 : Longuyon (France) 376 Duncan John D 1 : Courtrai (Belgium) 376 Lane Howard A 1 379 Abdallah Edward A 0.33 : JU 88 near Soissons (France) 379 Gordon Richard J 0.33 It's not unusual to see a plane crashed very far from battle area. Maybe she could be involved in a dog fight or maybe damaged and try to escape from battle area. Here (France) i've seen planes downed more than 150 km from the last place they were seen. Stephane Muret |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
Dear Stephane !
Thank you very, very much for your great efforts. So maybe the loss of my relative is corresponding to Charles F. Gumm's claim (Me109). I appreciate your help very much. Bye, FrankieS |
#4
|
||||
|
||||
Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
Frankie - only the 55th FG, 354FG and 357FG made Penetration escort to the Regensburg/Munich targets.
Only the 354FG engaged as far south as Munich - so Gumm's damaged claim on a 109 sounds like he wounded the pilot (25Mi East ----> Muhldorf) who may have been fatally wounded in the fight.. All the 357 scores were from Augsburg to Regensburg and Schweinfurt area some distance away from Muhldorf - but it's possible he was hit up there and crashed on the way back to his base? Regards, Bill Marshall |
#5
|
||||
|
||||
Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
Bill,
I'm not sure but i suppose the US pilots claimed for an air victorie on the place of the fight ? This off course doesn't mean it's place of crash. I believe claims lists were made with pilot's reports. So Gumm's claim was for a fight 25 miles from Munich. I don't know where the Me 109 crashes, perhaps could she return to its base. Stephane Muret |
#6
|
||||
|
||||
Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
Hi Bill and Stephane !
A different option could be that he was shot down by gunners of the bomber stream. I guess it's very difficult to find out the truth. Thanks for your great efforts. bye, FrankieS |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
Stephane- you are right of course.
However, Frankie stated he was looking for claims near Muhldorf and only Gumm's damaged claim matches up for any Me 109 claim by a Mustang on that day. And of course bombers could have shot him down. Regards, Bill |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
Frankie,
I dont know but perhaps the Bom Groups involved in the mission have a website where you could ask them about gunners' claims for this day . Looking for an air gunner kill is really very difficult because sometimes lot of them claimed for the same plane... Good luck. Stef |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
Thank you Stephane,
... yes very difficult indeed. Will be a lot of research and possibly never to be solved. Have emailed the german communal administration of the crash site to get some more info on circumstances (exact time of crash, maybe eyewitness accounts of air battle in the local archives ... if I'm very lucky ;-) ) bye then FrankieS |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
If you are going to check Bomb Groups I suspect you should look to 15th AF coming from south to Munich.
The 8th AF 3rd Division bombed Regensburg and the 1st Division bombed Augsburg. Neither route should have taken them over Munich and certainly not to the east of Munich. Regards, Bill PS I would still place my initial bet on Gumm even though he claimed only a damaged.. hits could have severely wounded the pilot but not hard enough to prevent an 'escape'. On the other hand if you can find the 25 Feb Mission map for 15th AF and the track is on east side or directly over Munich there is an equal probability that he was shot down by them. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Friendly fire WWII | Brian | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 803 | 8th July 2023 15:47 |
Percentage of Verifiable Victories of Various Aces –Updates & Recommendations | Rob Romero | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 25 | 9th March 2010 02:39 |
Percentage of Verifiable Victories of Various Aces –Updates & Recommendations | Rob Romero | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 0 | 30th September 2006 09:05 |
USAAF (RAF?) claims, July 24 1944 | mhuxt | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 3 | 13th April 2006 02:16 |
Claims identites | Adam | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 3 | 27th May 2005 00:05 |