Fighters Over the Desert

[JoeB]

I managed to get a copy of this classic work recently at not *too* high a price, and reading thru so far to the Crusader period I have a question as to the style of the narrative v the sources the book used.

In many places, the book will state that that Allied fighters 'shot down' Axis a/c, but not describe these losses in any detail from the Axis side. In many or most cases Italian a/c are described as 'shot down' but with no mention of which Italian units were involved. In case of the Germans, more than often than not the claims and claimants on the German side are given, losses on the Allied side given, but again German a/c described as 'shot down' without specifically saying whether the German units recognized these same losses. It seems specific personnel but not a/c losses are often given for Ju-87 and Bf-110 units when nothing is mentioned for Bf-109 units except their victory credits.

My guess is that the sources available to the authors back then did not include Italian unit records, and for the Germans included pretty complete claim info but spotty loss info, especially for the Bf-109 units. And, at that stage of those authors' careers at least, they stuck with the narrative style of one-sided air war history books, saying 'shot down' in case of claims where the other side's account was not known. Or am I mistaken and did the authors confirm German losses they described as 'shot down' by British pilots but for some reason not give further details?

I therefore find this book a bit confusing; ambiguous compared to later works by Shores where it's usually pretty clear whether or not a claim by one side can be verified in known opposing accounts or not, and those that cannot are usually not termed 'shot down'.

Joe

[Frank Olynyk]

JoeB,
Fighters Over the Desert (and the even harder to find Fighters Over Tunisia) were Chris' first works as campaign histories. At that time he did not have much in the way of Italian sources, and pretty much just Hans Ring's sources for German claims. Today the situation is much improved. He has access to very good Italian material, based on the Italian archives, through an Italian researcher. And the volumes that Jochen Prien has produced (both unit histories, and the Jagdfliegerverbande books) has added enormously to our knowledge of German claims and losses. All of this material is being reviewed and folded into a complete rewrite of these volumes and additional volumes to cover the Med to the end of the war. They will appear when then appear (the first one might appear by the end of next year, but no promises!), as long as his health holds out (still quite good at this point), and his enthusiasm (also good at this point).

Enjoy!

Frank.

[NickM]

Frank:

I am REALLY looking forward to Mr. Shores' rewrites of his 'classics'; the only down side is there are not so many Vets that can be interviewed any more; I often wonder how the lack of first hand info will be counterbalanced by the newer 'declassified' info.

NM

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by NickM

Frank:

I often wonder how the lack of first hand info will be counterbalanced by the newer 'declassified' info.

NM

For the Luftwaffe, the material declassified in the meantime would, I think, make all the difference. Prisoner interrogations were classified in Britain until the 1990s (although you could get them from the USA) and signals intelligence data are now readily available; much more work has been done on German claims and losses; Allied Technical Intelligence reports on crashed aircraft are better exploited now than they once were ...

Andrew Arthy and Morten Jessen's "The Fw 190 in North Africa" shows the sort of detail that can now be achieved.

[NickM]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

Andrew Arthy and Morten Jessen's "The Fw 190 in North Africa" shows the sort of detail that can now be achieved.

Well Nick I DO have that book too! AND I DID enjoy it greatly...

NM