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Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union. |
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Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace
Good morning Gentlemen,
Gerald Edge is the 7th ranking Hurricane ace with a score of 18+2sh in the type. One of his shared kills was a half-share on 9May1940. Can anybody tell me how many pilots shared in his other shared kill ? Have a nice Sunday, Michael Last edited by knusel; 26th October 2020 at 08:47. |
#2
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Re: Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace
From RAF Fighter Command Victory Claims of WW2 part 1 1939-1940.
Page 21. 43 Sqn. Hurricane FC. Time 11.45 F/Lt. J.W.C.Simpson - Do17 destroyed Runner Head Sgt. O'Heavill - shared. 87 Sqn Hurricane BEF. Time AM. Sgt. G.L.Now well - Bf110 probably destroyed - Maginot Line. P/O. Dunn - shared. 605 Sqn. Hurricane FC. Time 11.45 F/O.Edge - Do17 destroyed NW Wick. F/O. Austin - shared. F/O. Hope - shared. So were there two Do17 losses ? |
#3
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Re: Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace
Hello Alex,
this website http://cieldegloire.com/002_raf_edge_g_r.php indicates only one of Edge's claims as shared: 1/2 shäre on 09.05.1940. Which one is his other shared claim ? I mean, what is the date of the 1/3 shared claim in your post ? Have a nice evening, Michael |
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Re: Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace
There were 3 Do 17s combats on 9 May 40-one off Dunnet Head (Wekusta aircraft), Stab/KG 2 at Homburg and 4./121 which returned to Echterdingen damaged in combat
Last edited by Chris Goss; 26th October 2020 at 23:27. |
#5
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Re: Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace
Hi,
The 605 History - "We Never Slept" shows that Edge shared this with F/O Austin |
#6
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Re: Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace
Although F/O Ralph Hope was Red 3 on this interception, the ORB indicates that only Red 1 (F/O Edge) and Red 2 (F/O G.W.B. Austin) fired on the Do 17 and shooting it down. This is related in Fledgling Eagles (page 312).
A note on Edge's claim totals: As stated in Aces High a number of the claims listed were found only in Edge's log book and are not in the squadron ORBs nor do Combat Reports exist for them. This does not mean that they did not occur, but we should be cautious about accepting these at face value. I refer specifically to these claims: 23 May 1940 for 2 Bf 109s and 1 He 111 damaged 25 May 1940 for 1 Bf 110 (or 109) destroyed 26 May 1940 for 1 Ju 88 dest. plus another "possible" and a Bf 110 damaged 15 Sep. 1940 for 1 Do 17 and 1 Ju 88, both destroyed In addition, the Combat Report (CR) for 25 May indicates 1 Ju 87 dest. plus one damaged (or unconfirmed) rather than 3 dest. and one "disabled". The CR for 27 May, indicates 1 Do 17 shared with 17 Sqn. rather that 2 individual claims. With 253 Sqn. on 7 Sept. the CR and ORB indicate 1 He 111 destroyed or probably so (the CR and ORB are unclear as to which was Edge's) rather than 2 dest. For 9 Sept. rather than 4 individual claims the indication is that 5 Ju 88s were shared by 7 pilots, including Edge, as no individual claims were made. For 11 Sept. the claims for 2 He 111s dest. should be 2 Do "215"s destroyed, one half share and another shared with 8 other pilots, in addition to 1 He 111 probable and 1 Bf 109 destroyed (per Foreman in RAF Fighter Command Victory Claims). Regards, Tom |
#7
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Re: Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace
Hello Michael,
In response to your question. The question was about claim on the 9th May,40. So it would seem he only had 1/3 claim. But from Toms reply in which he quoted the ORB it would seem that only the two pilots actually fired on the victem, if that was the case then I find it odd that the Combat Claim Form's that were researched by John Forman would have shown that F/O. Hope had not fired at the victem ? He must have made a claim ? The Claim must have been approved ? |
#8
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Re: Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace
Alex,
I don't know from where John Foreman got his information. There is no Combat Report for Ralph Hope for that date on TNA website (nor for Austin for that matter.) Edge's combat report contains no narrative and, in addition to the usual time, date, place, etc., contains only an overlay showing the amount of ammunition expended. Link below: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D7492526 Here is a link to the 605 ORB (Form 540) for May. Everyone can judge for themselves, but there is no indication that Hope fired at all. The Form 541 seems to indicate the same. https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D8415854 Regards, Tom |
#9
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Re: Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace
I think I found it.
AIR50/169/104 (it's listed under 605 Squadron, P/O Muirhead) Pages 5-7 (out of 20 pages in the file) are the Combat Report for 9 May 40 from 13 Group Intelligence. It covers the interception of a pair of Do-17s by Red 1 and Red 2 of 605 Squadron (Edge and Austin) and by Red 1 and Red 3 of 43 Squadron (Ottewill and Simpson). The narrative goes back and forth between the two squadrons and if that's not confusing enough, the first full paragraph that begins on the second page begins by mentioning that Red 3 of 605 Squadron had returned to base with engine trouble and took no part in the combat. If you don't read it very carefully... And it certainly doesn't help that it's stuck in with reports from P/O Muirhead. Pretty sure this is the report you'll be wanting to look at. |
#10
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Re: Gerald Edge, Hurricane Ace
Good work Steve. The info seems to jive with the 605 ORB Form 541. F/O Hope (Red 3) took off with the others at 10:00 but returned at 11:20, while Red 1 and 2 landed at 11:55.
Regards, Tom |
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