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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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Wrack of Do217 on Ösel 1944
Hello friends,
in attachment photo from http://www.militaar.net/phpBB2/viewt...t=211&start=90 Location - Kuressaare (Arensburg) area. Gentlemen from that forum assumed that it is Do217M-1 from 4.(F)/Nacht lost in Dec.1944. Any ideas? Best regards, Andrey |
#2
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Re: Wrack of Do217 on Ösel 1944
Privet!
It is k7+JM (= 4.(F)/Nacht). I do not have any info about the loss itself. I have asked from those really in know and there is no data for a December loss. Perhaps earlier loss or unrecorded. Cheers, Kari |
#3
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Re: Wrack of Do217 on Ösel 1944
Thank you, Kari!
If it isn't December loss, it maybe Do217 claimed as destroyed on the ground on 6.Oct.44 by pair of Yak-9 (15.ORAP VVS Baltic fleet) during recce flight. But in Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen for Oct.44 no losses of 4.(F)/Nacht. 1 Do217 was lost "ohne Feindeinwirkung" in Sep.44. Do you know, when and where? Best regards, Andrey |
#4
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Re: Wrack of Do217 on Ösel 1944
Also, 6.Oct.44 17 Pe-2 58.BAP 276.BAD 13.Air Army claimed 4 fighter destroyed and 1 bomber, 1 fighter damaged on the ground on airfield Kogula (Kagul) 11 km NW Kuressaare. Maybe bomber was long-suffering Do217.
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#5
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Re: Wrack of Do217 on Ösel 1944
Privet Andrey!
October would be much more logical time for the Do 217 loss in my opinion. Perhaps it was indeed damaged on ground by the Yak/Pe-2 and not repaired until the Front moved over it. And then only in December 4.(F) /Nacht finished their paperwork??? I have asked some more data from a colleague to clear couple of things. As I am just leaving for holidays and there is lots to do at work I fear the possible answers from me will be postponed to mid July. As you mention the 276 (not 278) BAD Pe-2. Do you happen to know details of a Pe-2 loss at Vintri, Saaremaa? You can find the place in maps.google for example. Also shown as "Vindri" at the map (the thread page you linked) under the "Leo-Riegel". Most likely time is late October, 1944. There are pieces of this Pe-2 in the local museum there and they are said to come from a Vintri Pe-2 wreck. Of the September loss. Could this be the Dornier (?) Kozhedub writes about in his memories? IIRC the incdicent was somehwhere over lake Võrtsjärvi at mainland Estonia. Cheers, Kari Last edited by Kari Lumppio; 14th June 2012 at 10:25. Reason: Data correction |
#6
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Re: Wrack of Do217 on Ösel 1944
Hello Kari!
Thank you again. Quote:
Quote:
About Pe-2 wreck at Vintri: maybe it is No.17/286 (Korostylev - Shikhaleyev - Saunin) from 58.BAP 276.BAD, FTR from recce mission to Sworbe on 9.Oct.44. It was a sole Pe-2 lost in Moonsund operation in Oct.-Nov.44. Quote:
Cheers, Andrey |
#7
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Re: Wrack of Do217 on Ösel 1944
Hello!
I received answer to my query about the Do 217. There namely is a loss data for a Do 217 K7+JM (Thanks to Matti Salonen): " 1944-03-08, 4. Nachtaufkl.St. (FAG 2), Do 217M-1, 326403, K7+JM, (Raum Sarny-Gomel), Unbekannt. Bruch 100 %. Start um 18.50 Uhr. Flugzeugführer Olt Wollny, Erwin, vermißt Beobachter Lt Hillebrand, Anton, vermißt Bordfunker Fw Leonhard, Adolf, vermißt Bordwart Fw Oesterreich, Rudolf, vermißt " This location is hundreds of kilometers away from Saaremaa (Ösel) island. Also the time does not rhyme well with the battles over the island. Perhaps location and/or time is wrong or mixed up with some other Nachtaufklärung unit loss? I don't have the answer. The flights with recorded Do 217 codes in Finnish Air Observation material do not include any K7+JM so no help from that direction. I think 4.(F)/Nacht summary losses would add clarity to this puzzle but I do not have access to them (do they exist?). Of the Soviet side issues: Quote:
Quote:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=5338 BTW The special unit I was asking perhaps was 2./JG 54 (including Otto Kittel?) which was based at Oberpahlen (Põltsamaa, Estonia) on 2 September 1944 (Thank you Andrew Arthy!). I also asked about the Estonian base for 176 GIAP in a Russian forum: http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/0/archive/68/68872.htm And while I am still in speed. Did 176 GIAP fly La-5 or La-7 in this period? I refer to my question in the same Russian forum years ago (attachments sadly gone by now): http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/0/archive/100/100845.htm All the best, Kari |
#8
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Re: Wrack of Do217 on Ösel 1944
Soviet Baltic Navy (15.orap) claimed one Do-215 on 19.December 1944.
What is known about this loss from German side? |
#9
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Re: Wrack of Do217 on Ösel 1944
Hello Kari!
Quote:
Maybe new Do217 became K7+JM after the loss of No.326403 ? Or attribution of the photo incorrect? About Kozhedub: sorry, it is my error, really epic fail! His career isn't in the focus of my interest, but anyway... All the best, Andrey |
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