JV 44 FW 190D9 red 13 w.n.

[FRANCESCO M LENTINI]

In these days my top book is naturally "FW 190D camouflage & markings" part one by Eric Larger and friends.
I agree with him about the findings that the most likely construction number of red 13 is wn 211040, but, I repeat but, the enlarged pic on the tail on page 29 in "Doras of the Galland circus" (this book is in the bibliography list) by J.Crandall leaves few doubts about wn. 213240. This wn is not in known production batches and also the pics seems too much retouched.
In conclusion: may be this an artifact due too powerfull zoom?

Thanks

Francesco M. Lentini

[judyc]

Hi Francesco;

The Werknummer for “Red 13” is 213240. We have photos including some new unpublished ones, that shows with no doubt, that the number is 213240. Unfortunately the third digit, the ‘3’ is hard to read because of a spot of camouflage on the tail fin. With magnification of the original photos, the number can be read. As far as the photo published in my book Doras of the Galland Circus, it was not altered or the number changed, it was simply digitally enhanced by Tom Tullis through the use of brightness and contrast so that it could more easily be read. But rest assured, the number was not changed in any way other than enhanced for legibility. You will have to ask Tom Tullis as to how this was done.
“Red 13” is not W. Nr. 211040 as this number was assigned to a completely different D-9, photos of which we will publish in my forthcoming book. In addition, “Red 13” does have some interesting details that will be presented in my book as well.
Cheers,
Jerry

[FRANCESCO M LENTINI]

Thank you for exhaustive reply miss Crandall.
I have just reserved one copy of your book from last summer in my book-shop and I am anxious to see red 13 new pics (and naturally also all the book).
I think that at this point we must consider the hypotesis that the Focke Wulf 190D fifth batch is not from 213xxx to 213100 but at least 213240.

Francesco M. Lentini

[SMF144]

Jerry or Judy,

What's the E.T.A. for your D-9 book? I hope we don't have to wait for August 2006 to roll around.

Thanks.

Stephen

[Jerry Crandall]

Hi Guys;
Thank you for your response and interest. We are still working very hard to finalize our book, but new material keeps coming in so we don't really have a definate answer as to an exact publishing date. We don't want to hurry to immediately publish it to compete directly with the JaPo books as we feel that would be unfortunate for all as we don't want to have the enthusiast to choose between the two books.
As soon as we have a publishing date, we will announce it.
Thanks again!
Cheers,
Jerry

[Eric Larger]

Hello all of you , Fw 190D-9 fans ,


The news about W.Nr. 211040 is very interesting, but it leaves some other questions open. As we mentioned, the majority of D-9s that we identified, is based on photographs, and official documents that were corrected / completed post-war.
Since W.Nr. batches are not “stand-alone” items, but result from an industrial process, W.Nr. 213240 points at a gap of 143 machines between W.Nr 213097 (“White 11” of 10.(13.)/JG 51) and W.Nr. 213240. Until now this series was considered to be the last Focke-Wulf production batch, and mainly built with sub-assemblies that had already been manufactured.
Also note that we marked “Red 13” as “211040 (?)” and not “211040” because we still hesitate that this is its correct W.Nr. The photographs in our collection do not permit us to be 100 % positive – this certainly does not mean that we are challenging the enhancement done by Tom Tullis. However, in view of some key characteristics displayed by “Red 13” we concluded that the attribution of W.Nr. 211040 would be more realistic.
With photographic evidence almost non-existing, we doubt that a single production batch existed, ranging from W.Nr. 213084 to 213240; however, the possibility remains that these very late D-9s may have been produced in 2 separate batches, one including W.Nr. 213084 and 213097, and the other including W.Nr. 213240.
In conclusion, we very much look forward to seeing the photographs of W.Nr. 211040 – we cannot be but happy that our mutual research is triggering such evidence, which in the end will lead to more, and more complete information, as well as better understanding of the entire subject. In order to keep this discussion alive, in approx. 2 weeks JaPo will dedicate a separate web page to “Red 13” at www.japo-publishing.cz , where the various studies, opinions, etc. can be aired.


All the best

Eric , Marc,Tomas & Japo Team

[Redwulf__1]

Allow me to participate in this discussion a bit. iam researching JV 44 Platzschutz or "Würger Staffel" since 6 years. it is my personal intension to lighten the darkness of conclusions about this unit. My research was going a bit deeper about the JV 44 Doras, in special the known and unknown birds of this unit. Mr. Crandall states in his website that Red 4, maybe is one of the missing D- 11 V-Prototypes. But this is definately wrong. This plane came from G.d.J with a 220XXXX Werknumber block. ( former >58, regular D-11 production, one of 15-20 D-11 series ) In my research after Red 13 ( Fabers plane, but not flown alone by Faber ) I also found out that this has to be a 211XXX Werknumber block. A Member of a Luftwaffenmuseum here in Germany provided a full list ( it came out of Poland ) of D-9 Werknumber blocks. I didnt find a 213XXX Werknumber Block there. But it was a interessing read that some more aircraft were assigned to JV 44 Platzschutz. Doras coded red 2, 5 and at least Red 7. Also a link between JV 44 and G.d.J. Verbandsführerschule Bad Wörrishofen and some D-11 that were found there after the surrender.
I also have seen a frontside view from Red 13 that shows definately a difference in the underwing markings ( white / red stripes ).

Personally I have to support JaPo about the 211 Werknumber Block.
Btw before I forget, thank you Mr. Crandall for publishing the <61 Decals. The correct Werknumber of this aircraft was 220014 and it was not a Prototype D- 11.

[Jerry Crandall]

Hi Guys;

There is a need for further explanation on this interesting subject.

First of all I never said that the D-11 "Red 4" was ever a prototype aircraft. In my book "Doras of the Galland Circus" I concluded that, in my opinion, at that time, "...therefore <58 "Red 4" may not be V58 W.Nr. 170933, but could be in the 220XXX W. Nr. block...". Since the book was published I saw a higher quality print of "Red 4" that clearly shows the white werknummer on the starboard side of the fin is in fact 220 series D-11.

As previously stated, we have two photos that show the Werknummer of "Red 13" to be 213240. It cannot be a 211 aircraft. Again, 211040 was assigned to another D-9 in another unit. To date there are three known (two with photo reference) 213XXX werknummer block Dora 9s known, that are numbered widely apart.

As far as the number of Dora aircraft assigned to JV 44, according the Luftflottenkommando 6 strength report documents, five D-9/11 aircraft were in service with JV 44. Two were servicable on 23 April 1945 and four were serviceable as of 26 April 1945. On 29 April, JV 44 jets moved to Salsburg Austria and the Doras transferred to Ainring that is close by. There is photo documentation of "Red 1", "Red 3", "Red 4" and "Red 13". That leaves one undocumented Dora aircraft. In the photos of the lineup at Munchen-Reim "Red 4" and "Red 1" are present. In the photos taken at Ainring in early May, "Red 13", "Red 3" are documented. The missing aircraft may be the one that appears to be an Fw 190 out in the middle of the open field at Ainring. So far no photos have surfaced of this missing number. The numbers that have been mentioned, "Red 2", "Red 5" and "Red 7" unfortunately have no photographic evidence.

Happy New Year to everyone!
Cheers,
Jerry

[Roger Gaemperle]

Hi,

I just noticed that one of the Fw 190 photos on ebay (link found by Ed West in his latest list of ebay references) http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tem=6240409372

is a D-9 that has very dark painted landing gear covers. Could that be red or black? I don't see white stripes, however. I'm no Fw 190 D-9 JV44 expert, but perhaps you can tell more.

Regards,
Roger Gaemperle

[Redwulf__1]

Originally Posted by Roger Gaemperle

Hi,

I just noticed that one of the Fw 190 photos on ebay (link found by Ed West in his latest list of ebay references) http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tem=6240409372

is a D-9 that has very dark painted landing gear covers. Could that be red or black? I don't see white stripes, however. I'm no Fw 190 D-9 JV44 expert, but perhaps you can tell more.

Regards,
Roger Gaemperle

@Roger

Comment says : This is a JG 2 plane. If so then I believe the spinner has to be black / white. The landing gear is very dark indeed. Normally it has to be RLM 76 ( Lichtblau ) Maybe shadow or bad quality in picture? I interessted what others have to say about the picture

@Mr. Crandall

At least it would be a help to show us at least a part of this picture of Red 13 that displays the Werknumber.
The white double chevron of the Bad Wörrishofen D-11 has the Werknumber 220009. Do you have the complete Werknumber of Red 4, beginning with 220 ?