I./LG 1 or V./LG 1

[John Vasco]

This is a serious response to the previously locked thread on the '110 B in Poland'. It is not intended to stir things up, but rather an attempt to obtain some clarification on an issue which is the title of this thread.

I raised the point in the locked thread as a result of reading information in Ludwig von Eimannsberger's book, 'Zerstörergruppe', which many on this board will be familiar with. I quote the following paragraph to illustrate my point:
"...In August 1939 the Lehrgeschwader 1 added another bomber unit, which became I. Gruppe. Lehrgeschwader 1 now consisted of three bomber Gruppen (I, II and III), a dive bomber Gruppe (IV) and the independent heavy fighter Gruppe, which was now designated V Gruppe (Zerstörer) Lehrgeschwader 1..."

So you see, Eimannsberger places the redesignation in August 1939.

If anyone has hard and fast information on the date the designation changed I would welcome knowing it, given my interest in the type flown.

Hope this opener is OK, and not worthy of 'locking'.

[Stig Jarlevik]

John

I doubt we will ever see a locked thread from your end...
Knowing my lousy German (but not as lousy as my French, not to mention Polish, hint,hint ) I am checking what Peter Taghon says in his second volume of LG 1.

I.(Z)/LG 1 Umbenneung am 1.11.38 in Barth als I.(Schwere Jagd)/LG 1 aus II./LG Greifswald.
Umbenennung am 24.11.38 in I.(Z)/LG 1; Umbennung am 1.11.39 in V.(Z)/LG 1.

Although a second hand source, I have to presume he has researched the topic enough to have some kind of first hand knowledge about the dates in question, and during the Polish campaign the Bf 110 were used by I.(ZG)/LG 1.

I have no idea why two at least seemingly passionate individuals like Marius and Franek are worse than cats and dogs on this forum. They were like that already when I became a member. In the old days such problems were easily solved. Gentlemen! Pistols or swords??

Cheers
Stig

[John Vasco]

Stig,
Thanks for that, appreciated.

[Tom Semenza]

John,

Just to add confirmation to Stig's posting, Peter Taghon's "Die Geschichte des LG 1, Band 1, 1936-1942" does state under the date 01.11.39 that
I.(K)/LG 1 was newly formed and I.(Z)/LG 1 redesignated V.(Z)/LG 1.

Tom

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hi gents!

As for me, I feel strange looking on photoes - why they changed their Bf110 code, but not to V Gruppe code but to I Gruppe?

For example: Bf110 of I./LG 1 during Polish campaign show L1+A11 code, but with V./LG 1 during French campaighn they use L1+AK code... Why didnt they changed it to (for example) L1+AX?

[GrzegorzM]

Hi!
I'm happy that my original thread is continued here despite the locking.
And it continueas in the most desireable way - about the codes.

After determination (or, at least, reasonable estimation) of the airplane sub-type (it is said it was most probably Caesar) now I need to determine (or reasonably estimate) the code for Mazurowski's airplane.
Could you, looking on your photos, write me all the known codes of planes from that unit used in Sept. 39? I mean 3rd Staffel, I/LG1. Also I'd be grateful for the specific, unique markings of these planes (eg. individual markings, painted prop-bosses) if such are visible on these photos.
Had all the I/LG1 planes that wolf head marking on the nose?
Thanks!
G.

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by Evgeny Velichko

Hi gents!

As for me, I feel strange looking on photoes - why they changed their Bf110 code, but not to V Gruppe code but to I Gruppe?

For example: Bf110 of I./LG 1 during Polish campaign show L1+A11 code, but with V./LG 1 during French campaighn they use L1+AK code... Why didnt they changed it to (for example) L1+AX?

Evgeny,
In 1940, there were several examples of a change in unit designation, but no change in the Staffel letters apllied to the Bf 110s.

So, II./ZG 1 became III./ZG 76, but they continued to carry the codes 2N+-M/2N+-N/2N+-P, and I./ZG 52 on becoming II./ZG 2 continued to carry the codes A2+-H/A2+-K/A2+-L

Hence V.(Z)/LG 1, which had previously carried the Staffel letters 'H', 'K' and 'L', simply continued to do so rather than change them.

Also, 1./Erpr. Gr. 210's Bf 110 C-6s continued to carry the old unit's code of 2N (1./ZG 1) until they took on charge their first batch of Bf 110 D-0/B fighter-bombers (early August 1940), when the unit code on the C-6s was changed to S9.

[Marius]

 For example: Bf110 of I./LG 1 during Polish campaign show L1+A11 code

????????????????????????????????????
Source?

Marius

[Marius]

Umbennung am 1.11.39 in V.(Z)/LG 1.

Now an interesting information, maybe causing some headache...
V.(Z)/LG 1 is appearing in original German documents at the end of September 1939 already.
Here is a signature, especially for people calling my research "manipulation":
RL 2 III/702.

Marius

[Evgeny Velichko]

Originally Posted by Marius

 For example: Bf110 of I./LG 1 during Polish campaign show L1+A11 code

????????????????????????????????????
Source?

Marius

I look on "Zerstorer Vol I" by John Vasco, page 5, 6, 7.

Also, I look on photo of Grabmann's Bf110, it is L1+X?, 4th letter is badly visible but as far as I understand it dont look as "B" letter...

But Yes, may be I am not right. It could be PRE-WAR period.

THX for reply, John. I got it reading Your book.

I just was wonder - if they used L1+?11 code with I Gruppe, why with V Gruppe did they changed it to L1+?H line, not to L1+?X line for example.

P.S. The same miracle we can see with Me210 of III./ZG 1. Me210A-1, W.Nr. 2251, 2N+DD of Ltn. Fritz Stehle, wearing III./ZG 1 code of (III Gruppe), and in same time II./ZG 26 emblem (II Gruppe) is clearly visible on engine cowl.
Also, do You remember that photo I sent You long ago? Bf110F (or G), code (small)s9+LS. But its impossible...