Bf 109 F-4 SF+JI

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Gentlemen,

On 9 September, 1941 two Bf 109 F-4's emergency landed in Hungary on a ferry route to the eastern front. One of them was the SF+JP WNr. 7235 for sure, it is clear.
The other kite was SF+JI, which must be WNr. 7228. The German GQM report says it was WNr. 7232, but it must be a typo. According to the STKZ, it must be 7228 and additionally, 7232 was sent to the west, to JG 26 (it was shot down on 20 May, 1942 in a JaBo mission and belly landed in England)

So to me, it looks evident, that SF+JI was WNr. 7228.

Any different opinion?

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hello Csaba,

Regarding the WNr.7235, I have this loss on the 09.09.41 with the 7./JG77 as a Bruchlandung at Fl.Pl. Debrecen, damage 20%.
I have no records about WNr.7228 or 7232 that day. You are right, SF+JI should be WNr.7228 and not 7232.
WNr.7228 was later lost with JG52
15.02.42 Stab III./JG52 Gefr. Wolfgang Hüchker (†), Luftkampf mit I-16 - Absturz, 5km N Brigadirowka - 100% sw.<ll+~

If I may ask, what are your sorces for the SF+JI and SF+JP losses?


best regards,
Tomislav

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Hello Tomislav,

I have photo evidence. A picture of the questionable SF+JI will be in my next book too (with clearly visible STKZ)
Both of them landed in the small Debrecen-Nyulas airfield (which was only used for primary flying training), not in the large Debrecen-Epreskert (which was the military airfield of the city)

Best,

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Tomislav Haramincic

what are your sorces for the SF+JI and SF+JP losses?

Tomislav, I have two photos in my collection showing what appears to be S_+JP (the second letter could be either E or F, but apparently is F), following the accident mentioned by Csaba, surrounded by Hungarian soldiers.

The starboard undercarriage is broken completely, while the port one is bent (accident typical to Bf 109s), and the propeller blades are bent backwards, too.

Interestingly, the Axis yellow Eastern Front fuselage ring is painted underneath the second letter in the Stkz., not on the rear fuselage. The windshield is reinfoced with an armoured glass panel.

In my database the family name of the pilot mentioned in your last post is spelled Hüchtker, and the location of his crash is given as 'near Balakleija'.

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hello Dénes,

Many thanks for the additional information and corrections!

best regards,
Tomislav

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys.

Apparently all these losses need some 'seeing to' in order to get them right.

I agree that if the Stkz of the aircraft, which appear in the GenQu lists as a 20% loss on 09.09.1942 is 'SF+JI', then it is probably WNr 7228, and the following record not correct:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=112860

In addition, the spelling of the family name of the Gefreiter who was subsequently shot down in WNr 7228 is according to the NVM (the probable source for Tomislavs information) Hücker, while Dénés has him as Hüchtker and the original GenQu record states Hütscker:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=128797

Regards,
Andreas B

[JoMe]

In Book "JG 77, part 2, S 786" (Prien) the WNr. was 7332 ! for the plane of JG 77.

JoMe

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Originally Posted by JoMe

In Book "JG 77, part 2, S 786" (Prien) the WNr. was 7332 ! for the plane of JG 77.

JoMe

That's a typo of 7232 but as I said above, most probably 7232 is wrong. So 7332 is a kind of double typo