Ju-52 of the K Gr zbV 172 questions

[martin66]

Hello

I have been investigating about the use of the Ju-52 of the K Gr zbV 172 during may 10th of 1940.

I think the model they used was the Ju 52/3m g5e.

Is it correct? And what was their defensive armament?

Thank you in advance.

Martin

[GrahamB]

Hi Martin,

this is a very difficult question to answer, in the absence of necessary information. What you really need is a unit inventory for the period in question - unfortunately I only have those published in Karl Kossler's book (Transporter..). I know that some of the board members will have much more extensive data than this. Having direct links of type to werknummer (or the call-sign proxy) is also valuable/essential but it seems very hard to get in practice.

In theory it is possible that the g5e version was in service by May 1940 but I am having great difficulty in pinning down what they really looked like, especially when first introduced. Most books indicate that they had de-icing equipment and were convertible to the sea-plane configuration. These states would be indicated by:

1. the initial de-icing exhaust format with lower exhaust pipe feeding into the wing leading edge - itself with a smooth sheath.
2. re-introduction of the starboard forward access door (behind cockpit), deleted on the g4e version.
3. handrails on fuselage side.

Associated with the g5e (this is noted in the Squadron-Signal book, for instance) was the introduction of the rear gun-window (aft of the cargo and main cabin doors). I suspect that this was not a diagnostic feature introduced specifically with the g5e and the first aircraft to have it was probably VB+UF werknummer 6811, produced in about February 1940. This well-photographed Ju52 was probably a development aircraft for this feature, as well as the drift-sight on the port side (seen on many Ju52 in the early 7000 block - most either full sea-plane types or convertible (ie with handrail). It had standard exhausts so does not really indicate the g5e state.

Excluding obvious retrofits etc, the earliest werknummer for which I have a photo of the de-icing exhaust is 6855/VA+AZ - a well-known aircraft in the books. However, although probably a g5e it lacks the rear gun-window, starboard cockpit door and handrails. Very confusing!

werknummer 6935 was definitely a g5e - I've seen photos of the manufacturer's plate - manufactured about June 1940.

So in answer to your question - while KGrzbV 172 could theoretically have had g5e versions, their appearance and armament is uncertain - possibly with rear gun window, possibly with front crew door/handrail/drift-sight port. I doubt that they had the dorsal cockpit mg position that was very common at this period on the g3e and g4e types - not to be confused with the later Condor Haube type - many publications have made a complete hash of this. I just have not seen a de-icing/rear gun window type with the early cockpit dorsal mg.

Sorry to be so vague, Martin - it is just possible that other members will respond now that I have posted something - disagreement/refutation or otherwise might smoke out more data for you.

Cheers

GrahamB