Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 17th September 2008, 19:48
pstrany pstrany is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 159
pstrany
ZFR-4 and the 109F?

Hi;

One of the models of the 109F I am doing has a ZFR-4 telescopic sight mounted in the right-hand side of the windscreen. I guess this installation would be similar to the installation on the 109E, as the canopies are (laregly) the same, but would this installation have necessitated moving the Revi sight, or was there enough room on the right side to cram that sight in there? Also, was this just a straight telescopic site, that is, no cross-hairs or any such thing?

If anyone has any pictures of this installation, espcially from the pilot's point of view, I would be extremely grateful for a copy or at leave a direction to look for same.

Thanks!!

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 18th September 2008, 01:25
George Hopp's Avatar
George Hopp George Hopp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ottawa, CA
Posts: 830
George Hopp
Re: ZFR-4 and the 109F?

ZFR-3 and 4 were combined telescopic and normal gunsights, with cross-hairs on both
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18th September 2008, 14:15
ChrisS ChrisS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oxford England
Posts: 727
ChrisS is on a distinguished road
Re: ZFR-4 and the 109F?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrany View Post
Hi;

If anyone has any pictures of this installation, espcially from the pilot's point of view, I would be extremely grateful for a copy or at leave a direction to look for same.

Thanks!!

Paul
Hi Paul

This site has a few pictures some from the pilot's view, but none from an Bf 109F:

www.luftarchiv.de/bordgerate/optisch.htm search for 'optisch'.

And I have this picture.

Cheers

Chris

Last edited by ChrisS; 10th October 2008 at 18:18.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19th September 2008, 03:35
George Hopp's Avatar
George Hopp George Hopp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ottawa, CA
Posts: 830
George Hopp
Re: ZFR-4 and the 109F?

Quote:
Hi Paul

This site has a few pictures some from the pilot's view, but none from an Bf 109F:

www.luftarchiv.de/bordgerate/optisch.htm search for 'optisch'.

And I have this picture.

Cheers

Chris
Yes, but the one shot from roughly the pilot's view is of the gunsight mounted in a 109G, so it would be a pretty close fit, except for the inset bullet-proof windshield.

All the best,
George
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19th September 2008, 23:06
pstrany pstrany is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 159
pstrany
Re: ZFR-4 and the 109F?

First, thank you very much for that photo. That is incredibly helpful!!

The sight that was referred to as being from a Me 109G is in fact not a 109G, but rather an Me 110. This looks to me to be (possibly) an infra-red sight for night operations, but that is only a guess. It is definitely not something that would ever be installed in a 109 of any type.

From the very slim information I have (and again, thanks for the picture, now I at least have a clear view of the outside installation) this sight appears to be separate from the standard Revi sight. Galland had this style sight installed in both his "E" and "F". In addition, at least some of the Stab flight of II/JG 53 had either the same or a similar sight installed in their 109Fs, including the pilot whose aircraft I am modeling, Hauptman Heinz Bretnutz.

From what little I have found, it is unclear to me if this is indeed a ZFR-4 sight, as everything I've found associates these with the Me 410. Given the rarity of its appearance, I wonder if it wasn't just a rifle scope adapted for the purpose?

Again, thank you for your help on this rather obscure matter.

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20th September 2008, 00:20
ChrisS ChrisS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oxford England
Posts: 727
ChrisS is on a distinguished road
Re: ZFR-4 and the 109F?

Hi Paul

I guess you may have these already. Two shots of Bretnutz's plane with the telescope from the Jochen Prien JG 53 Pik As book.

I hope these prove useful.

Cheers

Chris

Last edited by ChrisS; 12th April 2009 at 19:52.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 20th September 2008, 02:39
George Hopp's Avatar
George Hopp George Hopp is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ottawa, CA
Posts: 830
George Hopp
Re: ZFR-4 and the 109F?

I think, Paul, that you are confusing the ZFR3/4 telescopic gunsights, and the plain vanilla telescopes mounted in Galland's machines, and in the photos posted by Chris.

The ZFR dual gunsight shown below, from www.archiv.de, is one tested in the 109G. And yes, it was mainly used in the Me 410s that mounted the twin 30mm cannon and the 50mm BK5 cannon -- but in its 4x magnification form.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:24.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net