Punch and Judy ??

[Oxby R]

Gentlemen, is anyone able to shed light on meaning of 'punch' & 'judy' in context of NF parlance ? Could it simply mean 'contact' established by nav/rad ? I should be familiar with stuff like this, but haven't come a/c this one before. Cheers to all, RO.

[PeterVerney]

"Judy" was the call made by the pilot to the GCI to tell them that his navrad was happy with the contact which he had and that no further help was needed. However the GCI were required to maintain coverage of the target and fighter, because if the navrad lost the contact the call "More help" would be made and control of the interception would revert to the GCI.
I am not familiar with "Punch" but at a guess that could have been when the navrad made initial radar contact with the target.

[SMF144]

Taken from several sources on RAF slang etc.

Judy - Take over (or "am taking over") the interception
Punch - You should very soon be obtaining a "contact" on the aircraft that is being intercepted.

Judy - R/T code; controller's signal to a pilot, to take over interception of enemy aircraft
Punch - R/T code; ground controller's signal to a pilot that he is following the echo of the correct enemy aircraft.

[Oxby R]

Peter & SMF144 - thank you gentlemen, for your assistence with this one. I knew from the context used 'Punch and Judy' meant more than my simple interpretation i.e. 'contact'. Find it strange however, I've not come a/c it's use before.
Anyway - not to worry. Thanks again. atb richard.

[PeterVerney]

Re "Judy". Once the navrad had a firm contact he had to keep up a good commentary to his pilot which consisted of position reports, i.e. "target at 40 port slightly above range 4 miles". Or orders, i.e. "Port hard" which he required to be obeyed instantly by the pilot, as he was inevitably behind the true position. I.e. the delay in appreciating the need to turn and the lag between issuing the order and the pilot obeying.
Life could become very fraught and the last thing the navrad needed was unnecessary remarks from the GCI cutting across his commentary. A typical navrad remark would be, "for Chrissake tell him Judy".
It was then that absolute trust each way between pilot and navrad was essential to a successful interception, as mistakes led swiftly to failure and the navrad had to be obeyed immediately. The navrad for his part had to realise immediately if he had made a wrong call and do something about it at once. There was no time for explanation or recrimination until the interception was completed or abandoned. Collisions with the target did occasionally occur.

[Oxby R]

Hi Peter - nice concise explanation. Would you mind if I quoted the para above ? Credit would given for your contribution, naturally. atb, richard.

[PeterVerney]

Go ahead Richard, I thought my story telling days were over, but once started on writing the above the memories came flooding back.

[Oxby R]

Thanks Peter. On the third draft now. Trying to knock it into shape sharpish, as the old eagle wants to see it in print before he falls off the perch ! atb richard.