P-61 buffs

[Brian]

Hi guys

Which P-61 crew claimed a victory on the night of 28-29/9/44 over the North Sea?

A P-61 was lost on operations over the Continent in March 1945 - who were the crew members?

Cheers
Brian

[Erich]

to your last question :

P-61 # 82 if the 425th nfs. Pilot Ormsby chases a Ju 87D and is hit by return fire of the rear gunner/radio operator. He ws then hit by US AA at 9,000 ft near Nancy. Ormsby called out on radio to stop firing but the US AA commander kept telling his men to shoot or he would court martial the gun crews ! 1 to 2 AA shells came up through the floor of the P-61 and killed Ormsby and broke both legs of the radar op Hower, but Hower struggled and bailed out, with German civilians taking him to Darmstadt's hosptial.......March 24, 1945.

to your first question nothing as to kills for the 422nd or 425th nfs.

E ~

[Brian]

Many thanks Erich - that was rapid response at its best!

Cheers
Brian

[Erich]

Brian the 415th nfs had just moved to Dijon France in September 44 and 1 crew flying a Beufighter scored a He 111 you mentioned on the Septmeber 44 date, two nights earlier the crew had shot down an Fw 200 around 20.00 hrs.

E ~

[mhuxt]

For what it's worth, a Mosquito crew of 25 Squadron actually claimed two V-1 launcher He 111s over the North Sea on 28/29 September 1944. I don't know if any other claims were made on the same night - I know the RAF did use Beaus in this role as the speed the He 111s flew was so slow as to make interception by Mossies difficult.

[Brian]

Thanks guys

Erich - who were the 415thNFS crew that claimed the He111 and FW200?

Cheers
Brian

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Erich

to your last question :

P-61 # 82 if the 425th nfs. Pilot Ormsby chases a Ju 87D and is hit by return fire of the rear gunner/radio operator. He ws then hit by US AA at 9,000 ft near Nancy. Ormsby called out on radio to stop firing but the US AA commander kept telling his men to shoot or he would court martial the gun crews ! 1 to 2 AA shells came up through the floor of the P-61 and killed Ormsby and broke both legs of the radar op Hower, but Hower struggled and bailed out, with German civilians taking him to Darmstadt's hosptial.......March 24, 1945.

to your first question nothing as to kills for the 422nd or 425th nfs.

E ~

Nancy seems a strange place here. Ju 87 were used at night but near the frontline, and it was in Germany at the time. Also Germany is coherent with the fact that the survivor was taken to Darmstadt. Erich, can you please check the AA position ?

[Brian]

Hi guys

I am now confused! Easily done, in my case!

According to Jack Foreman's 'Fighter Command War Diaries', a P-61 crew claimed a victory on the night of 28/29 September 1944, not a US Beaufighter. Anyway, I don't think a 415thNFS Beaufighter operating from Dijon would have been patrolling over the North Sea, and therefore the He111 mentioned as being shot down must have been more local to Dijon. So, did a P-61 of 422nd/425th NFS claim a victory on this night (a He111?), only to find that it was the missing 157 Squadron Mosquito MM646, which possibly crashed near Geesbrug in Holland (the crew of Flt Lt Peter Fry and Flg off Harry Smith are buried in the cemetery at Oosterhesselen near Geesbrug).

Can anyone unravel this mystery for me, please?

Cheers
Brian

[Erich]

Gentlemen I have used the 422nd and 425th nfs war diaries - microfische which was given to me to copy some years ago from 425nfs rep Bud Anderson. I have interviewed 425th nfs C.O. Gilly Lewis and asked him about suspicious claims and all he could say is that US nf crews were not the bet on their ID, as Gilly is a good sized chap I left the question there and did not further it nor with friend Bud Anderson and pilot Jack slayton which I interviewed at least 6 times while he lived in my area. Obviously for moral purposes amongst he squadrons it would not have been appropriate to include a Mossie in the kill claims and the "accident" would of been placed in loads of paper work to be quickly forgotten. Others may have differnt views on this of course but anyone can see easily the severe embaressment associated with this.

Laurent, the info was given directly from the date observed in the 425th nfs micro-fische which I must tell you is a total mess and was not easily copied, nor is the 422nd's, 415ths 416th and 417th nfs.

another version is that it was AA in the area of Darmstadt that brought down the P-61 on the 24th of March 45. Also that the Ju 87 was also shot down on that op.

Brian, the 415th nfs crew was : Capt. Harold Augspurger and 2nd Lt. Austin Petry R/O

[Brian]

Hi Erich

Thanks again, but since Jack Foreman has noted a P-61 kill in his 'Fighter Command War Diaries' one would assume this incident was also recorded in the USAAF War Diary. From the copies of the 422nd and 425th NFS war diaries that you have - microfische or otherwise - are you able to determine which crew or crews were airborne on that night of 28/29 September 1944, from 0100 onwards (which is when the 157 Sqn Mosquito took off)?

Cheers
Brian