Fw-190A werknumber 617961

[Alain57]

Hello ,

Who flew FW-190A werknumber 617961 Blue 3 from 2./JG2 when it was lost on march 3 1944 ?
Thanks

[Nick Beale]

What's your source for this one, Alain?

What I have on I./JG 2 losses and claims for 3 March 1944 is here.

[Chris Goss]

Alain: I must (like others) question the source of your information. Not only does the Wk Nr look good (I stand by to be corrected by the experts) but the I/JG 2 losses were in Italy. Perhaps the Wk Nr was 161796 but even that doesn't match

[Alain57]

Hello Gentlemen ,

Got this " info " from a friend years ago ,sorry i don't know the sources. Anyway thanks for the help.
Alain

[RT]

I think that your friend is W.....s hv got also some data from him, nothing bad on them, just this strange 617961....

Remi

[Seaplanes]

It seems that the prefix 61 was never used on a FW 190 production series. The prefix 60 was used on a series of FW 190D-9 built by
Gerhard Fieseler Werke Kassel and 62 for a series of FW 190A-9 built by
Arbeitsgemeinschaft WFG Nordenham. Consequently, the W.Nr. 617961
must be wrong. The information are based on a letter from Fockw Wulf from December 1944 giving the prefixes (first two digits of the six-digit Werk-Nummer) for all FW 190 production series.

[ClinA-78]

Dear Gentlemen,

Thank you to clarify this strange bird indeed. I have "617961" said lost in Maisoncelle (ENE of Neufchâteau) Belgium. I investigated in this area but couldn't find any witness of any German fighter lost there. So this info lights my fire...

Best regards and happy New Year to everyone.

ClinA-78

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi

Is 176xxx series the most likely one for this aircraft?

Did 2. Staffel of JG 2 use blue numerals?? Or black as would be 'standard' and also seem to be indicated by Nick's records?

In my opinion this seems to be a classical error made by translating german radio transmissions or other communications. I have often seen the following errors (this is just one example):

Original text:

Lt xxxxxxxxx röm.2 Geschwader Richthofen gefallen

Translation:

Lt xxxxxxxx of 2. JG 2 killed in action

By omitting the crucial röm. which translates to römisches 2 = II the resulting unit designation will be wrong, and the fact that we are really looking for an aircraft from a Staffel using blue numerals in the II. Gruppe, which probably then translate to 8. Staffel, is lost in translation.

II./JG 2 had two accidents on this date, no personnel injuries, so a NVM does not exist for any of these.

But as we have indications from earlier postings, as far as I can recall, that the dates from Alain's source can be a day off, it is probably wise to check the losses for 2.3.1944, when II. Gruppe had incidents involving 3 aircraft, and the pilot sustained injuries in all of them.

Also - the unit REPORTED incidents involving three aircraft in the loss report of 3.3.1944, with two pilots sustaining injuries, and it is of course possible that a mixup between loss and report date have occured. The loss date in this context was 24.2.1944.

I think all of these possible solutions to Alain's little mystery are plausible, and think we should explore them all.

Regards,
Andreas B

[ClinA-78]

Hello,

I have omitted to say I have "617961" (FW 190 A-?, blue 3, 2./JG 2) lost on the 2nd March '44 at Maisoncelle (source : Pierre Watteeuw). There are two villages with that name in Belgium. However there is almost any probability this was the crash location of a 190 as Andreas explained it.

Best regards

[Chris Goss]

I have JG 2 losses at Verdun, Sedan, Reims, Sedan, Arlon, Montmedy, Villaroche, Dieppe, Dieppe. Take your pick! 3 Mar were Viterbo (2) & Tuscania but that is all and before anyone asks, I have nothing for 4 Mar