Lw-emblem Stab./K.Gr. z.b.V. 9

[byron-]

Lw-emblem Stab./K.Gr. z.b.V. 9

I would like to know what this unit had to do with the island of Rhodes?
Can any body help?

[ouidjat]

Hello Byron,
Perhaps nothing to do with... But;
1/ Rodi is a language spoken by Fentar people in Norway.
2/ Rodi is Italian form for Rodos (=Rose). Since there is a Crusade cross above the reindeer we can think there is something to do with Malta Order, Teutonic Knight order and/or Hospitalier order. In that context (crusade) I can understand, too, why they choose an Italian name.
3/ I wrote <reindeer> but is it? We have to look if the reindeer has something to do with some past gods honoured in Rhodes. Diana? Don't know... Let's see. I'm looking for.

Cheers,
Franck.

[ouidjat]

Hi again Byron,

... And yes, the reindeer have something to do with Diana. SO, I don't know if I gave you an answer since you're asking what's the link between Stab/K.Gr.z.b.V. 9 emblem and Rhode Island. Perhaps juste because of Teutonic Knights order and WWII German Ideology!

What do you think?
Regards,
Franck.

[byron-]

Hello Franck,

Thank you for your kind notices hier and in the PM. Very interesting thoughts.

As far as i know, the reindeer (kind dama dama) is an animal which leaved in grate numbers on that island. That`s the reason, the island was called in the ancient times "elafussa = place with deers" and till now it`s a symbol there.
Many of the deers died unfortunately threw the devastating fire two years ago.
The cross is the well known cross of the Johannes Malta knights.

But unfortunately i still don`t know the link between KGr. z.b.V. 9 and that emblem.
Attached a pic with the deer of Rhodes from my last year vacation.
Near Rhodes ist the beautiful island of Symi. In that house of the second picture signed the german commander of Dodecanes general Wagener the capitulation to the british.

[ouidjat]

You're welcome Byron,

In fact I knew I had already seen this reinder!! Shame on me. I used to sail downthere, stop in Mandraki harbor in a 1929 Ketch, Fife design. It was... let's say looooong time ago. In another life, who knows?
I was looking for Rhodes Coat of arms etc... I did forgot this statue! And look; His woods got the same design than on emblem. Very particular isn't it?

But, like you said, no direct link between the emblem and the Island. In an another another life may be?

Regards,
Franck.

[Larry deZeng]

KGr. z.b.V. 9
[extract]
Mediterranean and North Africa. (Dec 40 - Jun 41)
Dec 40: KGr. z.b.V. 9 was reassigned to X. Fliegerkorps and ordered to Reggio di Calabria in South Italy, arriving there by 10 January 1941. Several days later, on l2 January, two Ju 52s were destroyed on the ground at Catania/Sicily during a British raid launched from Malta. Moderate losses continued over the next several months, with the first of these occurring on 28 January when a Ju 52 crashed on Rhodes in the eastern Aegean killing Maj. Helmut Frohne, one of the Staffelkapitäne, and three others. Accidents were recorded at Trapani and Palermo/Sicily on 3 and 9 February, respectively, and on 17 February Ju 52 (4V + EH) from 1. Staffel crashed in the Straits of Messina and its crew of 4 listed as missing. Two months later, on 20 April, two Ju 52s out of a formation of 5 were shot down into the sea off Benghazi/Libya by a section of Fairey Fulmars from the Royal Navy aircraft carrier Formidable killing all 10 aboard. The Gruppe did not take part in the campaign in Yugoslavia, Greece and Crete, and in the latter part of May it returned to Germany to rest, refit and prepare for operations in the East.

It was the first Luftwaffe transport unit to fly to Rhodes and that flight also cost it a Staffelkapitän. This is the Gruppe's only connection to Rhodes that might justify the use of an emblem with a motif that memorializes the island.

Larry

[byron-]

Thank you Larry,

Very explanatory notes as always.

On the following pic one can see both deer statues of the harbour.

[ouidjat]

Hello Byron, Hello Larry,

So Larry: <... on 28 January when a Ju 52 crashed on Rhodes...> later <...in the latter part of May it returned to Germany to rest, refit...> and last <... It was the first Luftwaffe transport unit to fly to Rhodes ...> , all this between (globaly) Dec. 40 and June 41.
For one plane they lost on Rhodes they adopt that very sophisticated emblem?
At that time Rhodes was Italien territory and the K.Gr.z.b.V. 9 based in Sicilia. If you think they adopt this emblem because of that lost say it. They send somebody down there to look at Rhodes to get an emblem idea in commemoration????
Following that link http://www.ww2.dk/air/transport/kgrzbv9.html K.Gr.z.b.V. 9 was created at the end of 1939 and, by the way Byron, the first Gruppenkommandeure was Maj. Karl Christ. The question now is when they did adopt that emblem? and Sorry Larry I'm not convinced by this only lost. Can be right, but I'm not convinced. This emblem is too far sophisticated to be justify like this.

Last, German occupied Rhodes in September 1943. This emblem was already in use, didn't it?

Regards,
Franck.

[Larry deZeng]

Hello Franck -

I have the complete history of K.Gr. z.b.V. 9, so what I provided is just that portion that pertains to Rhodes.

Here is a list of the Kommandeure, as far as is currently known (by me):

Kommandeur:
Maj. Karl Christ (Aug 39? - 28 Feb 40)
Obstlt. Johannes Janzen (1 Mar 40 - Feb 42)
Maj. Markus Zeidler, acting? (Feb 42 - 20 Mar 42)
Maj. Alfred Wübben (21 Mar 42 - Jul 42)
Obstlt. Adolf Jäkel (Jul 42 - 19 Feb 43)
Hptm. Hans-Hermann Ellerbrock (20 Feb 43 - 30 Apr 43)

On 1 May 1943, KGr. z.b.V. 9 was renamed I./Transportfliegergeschwader 3 as part of the general reorganization of the Transportfliegerverbände.

As for your assumptions and/or convictions, I leave that to you. I just present the information. You are free to believe whatever you wish.

Larry

[ouidjat]

Hello Larry,

Of course! But I'm free to understand that this extract his telling us a story about ONE Ju 52 which crashed on Rhodes Island. It's not written the ALL unit was flying TO Rhodes as destination! It's not written that this unit used Rhodes as permanent base or whatsoever.
And it's not written that the unit adopted this badge after this loss. Is it?

Now I don't know where you have taken this extract out - and may be it's your own (Congratulation) - If the author had the willing to explain that it's not written in the text above!

And you can't avoid this and just saying <It's up to you>. What do you think you are?

Franck.