Late-war JG 52 Bf 109 Markings

[torqueofthedevil]

Looking through the JaPo book which describes some of the Bf 109s of JG52 which were found at Deutsch Brod at the end of the war, I was surprised that none of the 6 aircraft covered in detail is shown with any yellow Eastern Front markings at all (ie rudder, lower wingtips, cowl band etc) - this is in contrast to Erich Hartmann's last aircraft which had the full set. At least one of the aircraft ("Yellow 11" of 3 Staffel) appears to have a relatively dark shade on the under-cowling panel - could this be RLM 04, or is it just very dirty RLM 76?

Any thoughts would be welcome!

[Don Pearson]

When you mention Hartmann's last aircraft, are you refering to photographic evidence or a profile painting? I've seen profiles labeled as Hartmann's last aircraft showing 352 victory markings; certainly suspect.

Don

[John Beaman]

By that time, the factories were not applying the yellow undercowl color, officially removed by memo in the summer of 1944, although many a/c retained them. The same is true for the "Eastern Front" yellow band. This was removed by memo from Luft 6 machines in March '45.

Don is correct regarding any profile of a late-war Hartmann a/c. They are all suspect as no complete photo evidence has thus far emerged of any machine after his January 1945 G-14 whilst attached to JG 53.

[torqueofthedevil]

Hi John and Don,

Thanks for your replies. I was aware that there is no proof of exactly how Hartmann's 109K would have appeared due to lack of photo evidence, but I trust Claes Sundin and Christer Bergstrom to make educated guesses in their profiles when some of the facts are missing. You are quite right that any profile showing all 352 kills is almost certainly wrong - I think Hartmann and his groundcrew would have had more important things to worry about after he landed on May 8th 1945 than add another victory marking to his aircraft.

As far as the yellow lower cowling and tail band go, I knew that they had been discontinued toward the end of the war (though I didn't realize it was as early as summer '44), but many aircraft (eg those from JG52 which were photographed after the surrender at Neubiberg) display yellow bands around the cowl and yellow rudders instead, whereas those at Deutsch Brod - according to the authors of the book, at least - have no yellow markings at all.

Once again, many thanks for your thoughts.

[thenelm]

As much as I respect the work the Claes & Christer have done - and as a matter of fact I have helped Claes with some of his work in the past - an educated guess is just that, a guess. And my comment in no way is meant to criticize their work. Just take it for what they say it is - an educated guess.

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by torqueofthedevil

Hi John and Don,

Thanks for your replies. I was aware that there is no proof of exactly how Hartmann's 109K would have appeared due to lack of photo evidence, but I trust Claes Sundin and Christer Bergstrom to make educated guesses in their profiles when some of the facts are missing. You are quite right that any profile showing all 352 kills is almost certainly wrong - I think Hartmann and his groundcrew would have had more important things to worry about after he landed on May 8th 1945 than add another victory marking to his aircraft.

As far as the yellow lower cowling and tail band go, I knew that they had been discontinued toward the end of the war (though I didn't realize it was as early as summer '44), but many aircraft (eg those from JG52 which were photographed after the surrender at Neubiberg) display yellow bands around the cowl and yellow rudders instead, whereas those at Deutsch Brod - according to the authors of the book, at least - have no yellow markings at all.

Once again, many thanks for your thoughts.

The aircraft at Neubiberg were a part of Luft. 6 wherein they were directed to display the yellow cowling band and rudder. Other machines on the Eastern front had no such directives.