Luftwaffe mis-identification of Jak-11...

[Ruy Horta]

...what can it be, since the same dossier* makes mention of the Yak 3, although not that particular stat, which makes me wonder if its superior performance compared to the Jak-9 hints to it being the Yak 3.

* Luftrüstungsindustrie der Soviet Union, Stand: September 1944

[Evgeny Velichko]

There are many mis-indeficasions in that war. Russian pilots called Bf109 F - He 115 (or 113), and only in late 1942 started to call it Bf109 F.
Germans call IL-2M - IL-2 m.h., La5 - Lagg5, La5 F, La5 FN - La5, and so on

[Ruy Horta]

Yes, true, but what I am after is this particular case.

Which type did the Luftwaffe mistakenly identify as Jak-11 (or Yak 11, if you wish).

In all likelihood it is the Jak-3/ Yak 3, but I was hoping for a second opinion.

[alessandro bray]

Hi,

Jak-11 are probably Jak-3, Duttmann and other JG52 aces have several Jak-11 entries in the victory list from late '44-1945, but I think that among Jak fighter claims was misidentification too. for example in german victory list of 1942 was't any Jak 9 claims, but in the Stalingrad sector VVS used them and losses a number of them (432 IAP in september at least 8 in a day).
I wonder that some pilot claimed in the same engagement both Jak-1 and Jak-9, but this fighter are very similar and in a dogfight at great speed is very difficult to identify them correctly, so my wonder for detailed model in the claims.....

alessandro

[ArtieBob]

IMHO, the confusion results from the apparent existence of two designs designated Yak-3. The first was the intended production version of the I-30 prototype which as far as I know (but I am not really very knowledgeable about USSR a/c) never reached quantity production. The designation was “recycled” for the lightweight fighter which was produced in 1943 and appeared in combat mid-summer of that year. Thus, chronologically the combat appearance of the a/c designated Yak-3 followed that of the Yak-7 and -9. It makes sense that the Germans might have assumed that the numeric designation might also follow in sequence and Yak-11 would have been next, as the even numbered Yak designs were not single engine fighters.



Best regards,



Artie Bob

[Jan Bobek]

Wasn´t Jak-11 wrong German designation for Jak with 37 mm cannon? I remember seeing this in some wartime ID booklet, but I am not sure.

[Csaba B. Stenge]

The RHAF called generally the Yak-3's to Yak-11 at the end of the war also (but they reported and claimed Yak-3's too). I found once an official report, which mentioned from the end of 1944, that Yak-3's appeared, but the writer of the report was sceptic (because the Yak-11 would have been the next, he tought, they must be Yak-11's, not Yak-3's)

[Nikita Egorov]

Dear Alessandro,

You info is incorrect. 434 IAP obtained several Yak-9 only in February 1943. Yak-9 was never used in the Stalingrad sector in Autumn 1942. In this period 434 IAP was equipped with Yak-7s mostly and Yak-1s.

BR

Originally Posted by alessandro bray

Hi,

Jak-11 are probably Jak-3, Duttmann and other JG52 aces have several Jak-11 entries in the victory list from late '44-1945, but I think that among Jak fighter claims was misidentification too. for example in german victory list of 1942 was't any Jak 9 claims, but in the Stalingrad sector VVS used them and losses a number of them (432 IAP in september at least 8 in a day).
I wonder that some pilot claimed in the same engagement both Jak-1 and Jak-9, but this fighter are very similar and in a dogfight at great speed is very difficult to identify them correctly, so my wonder for detailed model in the claims.....

alessandro

[Jens]

I have a german "Beute"-Rechlintest of a "Jak-3" means the real Jak-3.

So maybe they learned at the end of 1944 the real Jak-3, but the front didnt know it, since Hartmann claimed a Jak-11 at the 8.5.45.

BTW was that kill already checked by soviet sources and confirmed as a Jak-9? Not sure.