Is this an unknown Me 262 photo (eBay)?

[Dénes Bernád]

I am not much interested in the Me 262; nevertheless, I found this photo (presented on eBay) a very captivating one. Is it known or new?
http://i1.ebayimg.com/04/i/07/b5/7e/fe_3.JPG

[Dan O'Connell]

Denes, thanks, I've never seen it either, and I DO have an interest in the 262 :-) Looks likely KG 51. Sure wish I could read the second letter of the kz.

[Stephane Muret]

Denes and Dan,

This pic looks like the very well known pic from Me262 from I./KG51 taken august 1944 at Juvincourt. 2 jets are seen, taking off the runway, same angle but poor quality. Environment seems to be the same.

Stéphane Muret

[Dan O'Connell]

Perhaps it is Stephane, I don't have that photo handy, but don't recall it as Yellow B.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Stephane Muret

Denes and Dan,

This pic looks like the very well known pic from Me262 from I./KG51 taken august 1944 at Juvincourt. 2 jets are seen, taking off the runway, same angle but poor quality. Environment seems to be the same.

Stéphane Muret

I thought so too, at first: believing it could be a much clearer copy (in the Junincourt photo the two aircraft are almost silhouettes). However, the early Me 262 bombers sent to France had their code letter in black on the nose, as far as we know. Also, the tree line in the distance doesn't look the same but that is only from a quick comparison. Superimposing the two images in Photoshop would probably resolve the question if anyone has a couple of hours to spare!

[Dan O'Connell]

Nick, you've seen unit codes on the nose??????

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Dan O'Connell

Nick, you've seen unit codes on the nose??????

Sorry, individual aircraft letters - as in the well known photos of "Black F" in the Smith/Creek books.

[Kutscha]

From comparing the 2 photos would say they are both taken at Juvincourt.

The dual 262 photo is taken just slightly further down the runway. This because above the tail of the 1st 262 is a tree line that looks very simular to the tree line just above the wing tip in the single 262 photo.

Too bad the 2 a/c photo I have has the 2cd 262 in shadow so can't tell if it is a/c 'B'.

[David E. Brown]

Gents,

Based on my study of the photograph – and related aircraft from KG 51, I think that it is possible that the aircraft is question is this one:

WNr.170093: Call sign KP+OU. Me 262 A-2a. Lt. Wilhelm Batel, the Gruppe Technical Officer of I./KG 51 made a 29 minute flight at Lechfeld on 18 September 1944, taking off at 17:50. He flew it again the next day from 14:03 to 14:17. Hptm. Hans-Christoff Buttmann of Kommando Schenk 3./KG 51, flying out of Rheine, was killed during a combat mission on 5 October 1944, when he bailed out at 100 ft. (30 m.) after being shot down within five miles of Nijmegen, by a Spitfire IXB of 401 RCAF at 15:00 UK time. Probably part of a five way shared claim, including Flight Lt. Robert Monroe Davenport, Squadron Leader Hedley Joseph Everard, and Squadron Leader Roderick Illington Alpine Smith, all from No. 401 Squadron, RCAF. A different account is mentioned in A.I.2(g) Report #256, where it states that he bailed out at 2,000 feet, but his parachute failed. It also mentioned that the aircraft was camouflaged in 76 undersides, and ‘mottled green’ upper surfaces, with yellow tips. It had carried two MK 108 cannon (the other 2 gun ports were plugged with wood) and two bomb racks. It crashed in a very boggy field, creating a 30 by 12 foot hole. The report also stated that the unit code was 9K+BK. The apparent code was '9K+BL'. (Source: “Me 262 Production Log”, Dan O’Connell, Classic, 2005)

The camouflage of this aircraft, based on what is visible on parts of the tail, appears to have a meandering overspray of a dark colour over a pre-existing scheme. This was a common scheme to KG 51 at that time with the overspray most probably unit/field-applied using either dark green 83 or 71. The original scheme appears as a lighter shade representing the early standard using the two greys 74 and 75, but this was wholly unsuitable for bombers and a period where ground concealment was necessary to address the effects of increasing Allied air superiority. An excellent example of this scheme is the closely-related aircraft that is the subject in a short but well recognized cine sequence: “9K+we.BH”, WNr.170096 of 1./KG 51 photographed at Rheine in the fall of 1944.

It is interesting that in the above claim report, the pilot describes the aircraft as having “yellow tips”. This feature is not attributed to a particular part of the aircraft and could be referring I./KG 51s practice of painting the top of the tail and nose in the appropriate staffel colour.

Regarding the location, either Juvincourt or Rheine is possible, though I would lean towards the latter. The background vegetation certainly looks to retain its leaves suggesting summer to mid-autumn time frame but no later. The loss occurred in early October, so this period would match the observed vegetation attributes in the photo.

So: Me 262 A-2a, “9K+ge.BL”, WNr.170093, 3./I./KG 51.

Comments and thoughts appreciated.

Cheers,

David

[Dénes Bernád]

Yet another Me 262 photo, reportedly from the same source, surfaced on eBay:
http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/07/c7/fa/91_3.JPG

Is this one known?