He 111 DS+EW W.Nr 4587 - details

[Steve Coates]

Does anyone have anything on this He 111. I have it being flown from E-Stelle Travemünde to Delmenhorst in March 1943 by an employee of the E-Stelle. This machine doesn’t have an Stkz in the usual range for Travemünde. I’d be interested to learn if anyone has any additional details on this machine and its eventual fate (if known).

[RT]

Still at Travemünde in Nov. 1944, at the time they some kind of pump, if you are seeking for tthat pump Iam afraid you are late

Remi

[RT]

Sorry , it need some kind of pump...

[thenelm]

It would have been an He111H-6, assumedly much too late a build to have been assigned a Travemünde block SKZ - I thought those SKZ blocks assigned to E-Stelle, schools and other oddball units was a one-time deal for aircraft on strength when the SKZ system was adopted in late-39 - early 40? That particular machine is missing from my database, though maybe I'll find it eventually in the 'Schulen' losses.

[Steve Coates]

Thanks both.

thenelm - yes I guess it got to Travemünde after the initial block had been exhausted but if RT advises it was still there in late 1944, then I guess you won't find it in the Schulen losses. It's about mid 44 they run out isn't it - I'm working from memory here.

[thenelm]

Well - many machines were reported in losses with 10-60% damage and were repaired and flew on. 60% was supposedly the damage percent at which a machine was written off - from what I've seen, that was not always the case.

[edNorth]

I agree, 60% was considered total, but over 80% then it unlikely was "rebuilt" (a term I think more accurate to use when over 50% than term "repair"). Actually the Luftwaffe used a system in the rebulding process. Before the war they adopted the repair/rebuild system where the rear end of the fuselage "held" the original W.Nr. They then "rebuilt" the fuselage and assembled with whatever wings, tails etc. that already had been repaired. Consequently the repaired aircraft flew with whatever parts that were available (rather than wait for it´s original parts and delaying service re-entry - due different times needed to repair them). I have this "confirmed" from several Ju 88 aircraft. This is also known from He 111.

Luftwaffe "Schulen und Sonstige Verbandes" losses lists "end" at end of September 1944, but one single day in 1945 is in normal series (apparenly put in wrong folder!) This confirmes Schulen/training losses continiued - and were compiled also by Ge.Qu. 6.Abt. into the early months of 1945 (likely like "regular" series).