JG 301 or ... JG 5 ?

[gibsonfndr]

I started a conversation with a member of this forum about the JG 301 markings and came to mention the FW 190 "black 9" with the "wrong" RV band (red/yellow instead of yellow/red). LLv34 then mentionned the fact that these planes could be from JG5 (faded black/yellow really looks like red/yellow on a BW pic, doesn't it ?). after looking at the pics from the actual planes I seem to be lost ... has anyone heard of this "inversion" ? do we have actual evidence that when getting their planes from JG11 the guys actually painted the red band on the wrong side ?

[O.Menu]

Hi gibsonfndr,

Thanks to expose this question better than i could about those two strange JG 301 Fw 190 with inverted fuselage bands visible in Sq Signal Walk Around... Which i think could also show airplanes from JG 5 ?

Note that except if Kjetil Aakra come here, another good place to ask this same question could be WWII Air War over the North : http://p219.ezboard.com/bwwiiairwaroverthenorth

Cheers!

[Kjetil Aakra]

Hi.

Unless the colours of the numeral on this "Black 9" could be blue it simply cannot be a machine from JG 5. Only two Staffeln operated Fw 190s in Norway at the time, 9. Staffel with white numerals and 12. Staffel with blue (exact hue is a matter of debate!).

Could you perhaps post the photo in question? Clues useful to identify machines from 9. and 12./JG 5 from late 1944 to the end of the war are the cowling ring in Staffel colour and spinners in either white with black spirals (often, but not always seen on 9. Staffel's Focke-Wulfs) or blue with white spirals (12. Staffel).

Regards,

Kjetil Aakra

[odybvig]

Hello

The only units in Norway with Fw 190 with RVB was 9. and 12./JG 5 at Herdla. The RVB was painted on the fuselage late april 1945, and it is not likely that any of those A/C was sent to the continent. All Norwegian based FW 190 with RVB would also have the "Eismerjäger" emblem on the left cowling. Colors on the numbers would be white (9./JG 5) and blue (12./JG 5). A smal disk in the same staffel color would also be behind the balkenkreutz (IV group marking and not III group marking as expected)

Best from Norway
Olve Dybvig
www.luftwaffe.no

[Kutscha]

Originally Posted by O.Menu

Hi gibsonfndr,

Thanks to expose this question better than i could about those two strange JG 301 Fw 190 with inverted fuselage bands visible in Sq Signal Walk Around... Which i think could also show airplanes from JG 5 ?
Cheers!

Doc, as it states in the S/S book, the 2 a/c, being from JG11, is a much more viable conclusion than being from JG5. That is, unless someone can say that the WNr for Black 9 went to JG5.

[gibsonfndr]

so there we go with pics of these mysterious birds ...



as you might notice, no spiral on the spinner nor cowling ring so maybe it is JG 301 ?.
someone mentionned Norway and Olivier said the trees around the planes looked like trees from the northern countries (norway for example) all I can say is I've been to the north of Germany several times, including Schleswig Holstein and I can tell you you can find this kind of trees all over the country. Correct me if I'm wrong but Jg 301 used to be in Shleswig Holstein by the end of the war so the treees are not of great help !

[cproyston]

I don't think these aircraft are from JG5. American personnel controlled the southern sector of Germany, which is where these (and many other JG301) aircraft were found.

The "reversed" JG301 bands are well known, no one is really sure which way round is the "right" way.

Take a look at http://www.stormbirds.net/experten/yellow15.htm and http://www.stormbirds.net/experten/p...2addendum1.htm for further details.

Hope this helps,
Chris

[Kjetil Aakra]

Yes, I though it were these aircraft.

They are definitely not from JG 5. Forward coloured band is not black (compare with fuselage cross) and the chevron marking with small numeral is unknown in JG 5 at the time.

For the appearance of JG 5 Geschwader ID bands see this photo:



Kjetil

[O.Menu]

Ok, JG5 seems not to be the best possibility...

Note: In Kagero book about JG 301, authors write that chevron4 was pictured at Hagenow airfield...

[O.Menu]

Cross post Kjetil!

So let me thanks for replies and for this great and supposed unpublished photo.