418 Squadron RCAF - Mosquito HJ82225 lost on 25 JUL-1943

[FordTwente]

Dear All

I have just joined and have already been immensely impressed by the wealth of knowledge on this site.

I am trying to find out more about what happened to my uncle, John Lawrence Seymour, a member of 418 Sqd RCAF.

He was killed in Mosquito HJ822 which the Aviation Safety Network site tells me crashed at 23:55 on 25 July 1943 at Lijnden near Schipol in Holland. (ASN Wikibase Occurrence # 51588 - this page cites a PDF source file but this does not seem to be freely accessible.)

The crew are given as :
F/Sgt (1346965) Hugh HAY (pilot) RAFVR - killed
F/O (130.840) John Lawrence SEYMOUR (obs) RAFVR - killed

I know where my uncle and his pilot are buried and hope to visit due course. But I would also be grateful for any further information about their mission and indeed any others missions that members may know about.

With many thanks

[Larry]

I'm sure you meant to say HJ822 (a Mosquito Mk FB VI)!

By your user name I'm sure you know 418 (City of Edmonton) RCAF was a Fighter Sqn based at RAF Ford and was carrying out night intruder ops and at the time of its loss was carrying out an operation to Twente.

I know that 418 was the first such Sqn to receive Mk FB VI in May 1943 and was carrying out night intruder support for Bomber Command at this time.

Its likely that HJ822 was one of the first batch of Mk VI delivered to the Sqn and I wonder if there is a photo of a line up of these aircraft including HJ822 in Canadian archives, which are on the web and free to access. Sadly I cannot find any TH codes Mosquitos in my files for this time.

[pauldawn]

hi forde twente

i read your post with interest because your uncle and myself actually have the same surname.

ive recently completed 2 years researching my wives uncle who lost his life over france in 44 with 427 sqn RCAF (he was RAFVR). we thought we'd hit a brick wall untill i contacted the national defence HQ in Ottowa, canada. they have a history and heritage section run by a Major Joost. This guy is an absolute star!! if anyone can answer your im sure he will, you wouldnt believe the info he sent us!! you can get him on this email address: MATHIAS.JOOST@forces.gc.ca

good luck

paul seymour

[mhuxt]

That close to Schiphol, I'd guess the aircraft was brought down by flak. There was apparently no matching claim by Luftwaffe aircraft.

This site: http://www.nimh.nl/nl/images/1943%20sec_tcm5-7284.pdf says the aircraft came down at Hoofdweg 152 at 23.55. If you can get a look at the operations record book, you might be able to determine whether this was on the way out or on the way back.

[Mary20]

Hello, I have found it very interesting to read all your contributions to this thread.
I have recently been looking at the relevant locations relating to the final mission of John L Seymour and Hugh Hay using Google maps and street view – Ford, Schiphol, Hoofdweg,Haarlemmermeer and Twente. I realised that the crash occurred the short distance of approx 1 mile from the hiding place of Anne Frank – famous diarist.
http://www.annefrank.org/
On looking at her entry on the 26th July it gives a very clear and moving account of the preceding hours air activity from breakfast 25th July ‘43 until the early hours of 26th July ‘43 . There is particular reference to midnight – the time at which the plane crashed.....
‘I can assure you that when I went to bed at nine, my legs were still shaking. At the stroke of midnight I woke up again: more planes! Dussel was undressing, but I took no notice and leapt up, wide awake, at the sound of the first shot’.
http://www.penguin.co.uk/static/cs/uk/0/minisites/happybirthdaypenguin/html/18.html
I saw on Google street view that there is a churchlike building close to where she was hiding and so may have heard it chime midnight. The plane came down very close to midnight.
Could anyone tell me how was the time of crash determined – was it local accounts, loss of radio contact or some by other means?
My mother, Mary, was John Seymour’s wife and widow.

[Icare9]

Hello and welcome, and a very neat way of linking your mother's name and the crash area.....
I don't know for sure, but I believe the time would have been given by reliable sources, such as locals, or perhaps something as simple as the watches worn by the crew...
One location that has been given is Lijnden (Hoofdweg 152) which I presume is the house number in Hoofdweg???
How interesting if there is a link to Anne Frank noting that crash in her diary.
We tend to forget that she was aware of what was going on around, not just trapped indoors....
No wonder you want to find out if it is one and the same.. Good luck!!

[FordTwente]

Thanks to all of you for your help - and apologies for the delay in getting this acknowledgement back to you.

I have been in touch with Mathias Joost in Canada and various other people who have contacted me privately. Also Mary20 above. I am amazed how much information we have collected in a few weeks, starting from a name on an old photograph! John Seymour is now firmly in our family archive.

[Henk Welting]

Intruder mission aerodrome Twente near Enschede, Holland. Don't know cause of the accident but the crash location was on land of Mr Gijzenberg, Hoofdweg (name of a road), house number 152, and 4 km NW of airfield Schiphol.

Henk.

[MW Giles]

You may have this information already but 418 Sqn sent out eight Mosquito Mk VI aircraft that night to intrude over the following airfields

Venlo 1/2 (1 seccessful, one early return), Gilze Rijen 2, Deelen 2, Twente/Enschede 2 (One lost)

Take off time for Hay and Seymour is given as 22:50 hrs

Regards

Martin

[SMF144]

This might be of interest?

Eight Mosquitos Vi of 418 RCAF Squadron left Ford at 2245 and 0011 hours to patrol DEELEN, VENLO, GILZE-RIJEN and TWENTE. The A/C detailed to patrol TWENTE, F/S Hays, pilot and P/O Seymour, navigator (RAF) did not return, nothing being heard after the sortie left at 2250 hours. Another turned back mid-Channel. Of the remainder, two a/c, F/L M.W. Beveridge, RCAF, pilot, Sgt. Bays, navigator, and F/O J.R.F. Johnson, RCAF, F/O N.J Gibbons, RCAF, navigator, bombed GILZE-RIJEN aerodrome with 4x500 lb., bombs and 2x500 plus 2x250 lb., bombs respectively, no results being seen save that runways appear to be hit. Another a/c, S/L G.C. Moran, RCAF, pilot and Sgt. Rogers, navigator, bombed the aerodrome at TWENTE, 4x500 lb., bombs being seen to burst in the dispersal area. DEELEN aerodrome was bombed by two other a/c but no definite results seen. The remaining Mosquito bombed without definitely observed results.

Stephen