British bomber loss over Germany on 17.08.40

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Anybody got a take on which British BC loss this would be? Looks like a British bomber SD on 17.08.40 somewhere in the Bayreuth area of Germany.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_8866wt_1032

Regards,

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hi Larry,

I've checked the losses for that night and obtained this information ( the most probable if we consider that that bomber crashed near Bayreuth ):
Hampden P4365 Information

Type

Hampden

Serial Number

P4365

Squadron

144

X1D

PL-?

Operation

Merseburg

Date 1

16th August 1940

Date 2

17th August 1940


Further Information
"Serial range P4335 - P484. 50 HP52 Hampden Mk.B.1. Part of a batch of 120 Hampden B.1. P4285-P4324; P4335-P4384; P4389- P4418, of which:- P4304; P4306; P4312; P4315; P4347; P4369; P4373; P4395; P4401; P4418 were converted to Hampden TB (Torpedo Bomber). P4335 was the first Hampden fitted with a balloon cutter. Delivered by The English electric Co. (Preston) between Feb40 and Aug40. After the 'L' and 'N' serial numbers, which were mainly allocated before the outbreak of hostilities, serial numbers do nmot run continuously s small groups of numbers were deliberately omitted. The object of this subterfge was to confuse the enemy in regard to the actual number of aircraft being built. P4365 was one of two 144 sqdn Hampdens to be lost on this operation. See: P4291. Airborne from Hemswell to attack the Leuna oil refinery. Destroyed in a fatal crash on return to base. Cause not established. S/L P.H.Rebbeck KIA P/O D.Hutchins KIA Sgt B.H.Foster KIA Sgt H.Dickinson KIA "
If you want, you can cross-check the information and obtain ALL the other bombers that went missing from 16th to 18th August 1940 on this site:
http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/

ALL the best,

Adriano Baumgartner

PS: From one of the pictures, it seems the engine is a radial one...( I only had a glance at it...not very carefully though...sorry...but this is an interesting point ).

[Khorat]

The remains shows a Vickers Wellington,
so only 1 Wellington lost in the night 16./17.August 1940, the pics will taken August 18th.
Wellington IC R3174 OJ-A, 149. Sq. TO 21.23 (16th) Mildenhall, target was Kölleda,
Squadron Leader Evelyn Harry Toller Thwaites and 2 crewmembers killed (buried Dürnbach today), 3 crewmembers POW

Regards
Michael

[Revi16]

The wreckage looks like a Wellington (geodesic construction ).

Regards,

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,


Re: 653188 Sgt F J PENNICOTT (Camps DL/L1 - PoW No.2435)

Another early arrival at the Hohemark (Reserve Lazarett Kuranstadt Hohemark), was Sergeant F. J. Pennicott RAF, whose Wellington, on the night of 16/17 August, 1940, (Kolleda), had crashed into a hill avoiding searchlights and gunfire some 100 kilometres short of the target.

See:
Footprints on the Sands of Time.
Clutton-Brock,Oliver.
London:Grub Street,2003.
pp.157 & 380.

Might I suggest, the crash location as (bei Einbeck), near Einbeck (approx. 100 km NW of Kolleda), (not Bayreuth, being most likely where the photograph was processed).

Col.

[Henk Welting]

Hello,

Wellington R3174 of 149 Sqn hit by flak and crashed in a wooded area named "Saulöcher", near Einberg, 8 km ENE of Coburg, 01.30 hrs. Fatal casualties initially buried in a collective grave at Einberg.
For "Kuranstadt" to read "Kuranstalt" (= Health Resort used as a Reserve Hospital).

Henk.

[Larry Hickey]

Henk & Col.,

Now we've got it. This board came through again! Can anybody now provide a/c codes or partial codes on this one (I believe SQ code would be OJo?), along with crew names and their positions? My copy of Bomber Command losses is out being digitized at present, and Peter C. hasn't yet gotten to this one for our EOE British all-source & theater Air Loss DB for 1939-40. He's undertaken a huge task and having these settled in advance with good photos greatly speeds up his work and diminishes his brain damage, something that I greatly support.

While posting this new info in the DB, I note that I have photos of another 149 SQ Wellington, with just the badly crashed rear fuselage intact carrying the code OJoA, and the info that this was during 1940. I know that many Wellingtons might have carried that code over the years, but does this ring a bell with anyone? No SN is visible that I can see. The photos shows the remains in open agricultural country or possibly on a beach, I'm not sure which.

Regards,

[Henk Welting]

Larry,
R1374 indeed was coded OJ-A and took off 21.23 from Mildenhall. I've following crew on file, all who died initially buried 20-8-1940 in a collective grave at Einberg:
S/Ldr (Pilot) Evelyn H.T. THWAITES - AFC - 37134 - now Dürnbach WC;
P/O (2nd P) Derek E.S. CHARLES - 74349 - now Dürnbach WC;
F/Lt (Obs) M.J. FISHER - 800849 - PoW (9AH/L3-1245);
Sgt (Bombaimer) H.J.V. COWNIE - 621848 - PoW (L1/L6/357-211;
Sgt (WOp) Frederick J. PENNICOTT - 653188 - PoW (DL/L1-2435), and
P/O (Airgunner) Jack WILK - 76932 - now Dürnbach WC.
Regards,
Henk.

[Larry Hickey]

Henk,

Great info! Thanks! I think that you transposed the SN, shouldn't it be R3174?

I was surprised that the 17.08.40 Wellington crash near Einberg was coded OJoA, as my two photos reported above of the crash of a plane with those codes don't show the remains in a wooded area like the other photos of the known Einberg crash.They show a badly smashed tail section, with another major part of the wreckage in the background. lying on open, agricultural ground, totally unlike the other photos in the woods of the Einberg crash. This almost has to be a different a/c at a different time period. I know that a/c codes were re-used and that over the course of the war several Wellingtons may have carried the code OJoA. Are you aware of another Wellington with the code OJoA that might have crashed during some other period?

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Henk,

Great info! Thanks! I think that you transposed the SN; shouldn't it be R3174?

I was surprised that the 17.08.40 Wellington crash near Einberg was coded OJoA, as my two photos reported above of the crash of a plane with those codes don't show the remains in a wooded area like the other photos of the known Einberg crash.They show a badly smashed rear fuselage section, with another major part of the wreckage in the background, lying on open, agricultural ground, totally unlike the other photos in the woods of the Einberg crash. This almost has to be a different a/c at a different time period. I know that a/c codes were re-used and that over the course of the war several Wellingtons may have carried the code OJoA. Are you aware of another Wellington with the code OJoA that might have crashed during some other time period?

Regards,