Identity of Ju-52 lost Berlin April 1945-East West Axis

[kaki3152]

In a book by Tony LeTisier on the battle for Berlin, there were two pictures of a wrecked Ju-52 which crashed on take off rom the East_West Victory Axis during the final battle of Berlin on April 26,1945.

Does anyone know the identity of the JU-52 and the circumstances behind the crash?

[FalkeEins]

doesn't answer your question directly of course but I compiled the following after reviewing the 'Grey Wolf' book which has AH escaping his bunker in Berlin in a Ju 52 piloted by ace and RK holder Peter Baumgart (yes, seriously...the author has even appeared on Sky News to plug it..)

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2011/1...er-distan.html

[pmotch]

Can someone post this pic of a JU52 wreck in Berlin at the end of the war?
Having been to Berlin many times, and being a pilot myself.. I would like to figure out where JU-52's could have gotten in and out of Berlin Center.

The East West Ave that is always mentioned would not only be tight for an aircraft the size of a JU-52, there's the issues of the two major obstacles. The Brandenburg Tor and the Siegessaule.

Coming in over Unter Den Linden, you'd have to clear the BT (which really wouldn't be a big problem) but then you'd have a stopping problem. To come in from the other direction.. you'd have to make an arching approach around the SS and again, worry about stopping. This curved approach would be a handful for any pilot in normal conditions.. but to do it with low vis, while being fired upon and landing into a strip with debris is something I can't get a handle on.

Interesting discussion though~

Always
Motch

[kaki3152]

Motch, the only picture I have is a poor Xerox copy of the appropriate page from Le Tissiers's book, Berlin Then and Now.

Maybe someone who has the book could post a picture?

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by pmotch

The East West Ave that is always mentioned would not only be tight for an aircraft the size of a JU-52, there's the issues of the two major obstacles. The Brandenburg Tor and the Siegessaule.

Coming in over Unter Den Linden, you'd have to clear the BT (which really wouldn't be a big problem) but then you'd have a stopping problem. To come in from the other direction.. you'd have to make an arching approach around the SS and again, worry about stopping.
Always
Motch

The Siegessäule was moved in 1938. I have a facsimile map of Berlin in 1936 and then it stood on the Königsplatz, in front of the Reichstag (so not on the Charlottenburger Chaussee axis) rather than at Großer Stern as it does now. The major obstacle at the western end of the Chaussee would be the bridge at the Tiergarten S-Bahn station (intact on an aerial photo from March 1945). It's not that high but it is a solid obstacle.

(We stayed in a hotel by that station on holiday last year and I've walked the relevant stretch a few times as a result!)

According to Google Earth: Branderburger Tor – Großer Stern = c. 1.8 km; Großer Stern – S-Bahnhof Tiergarten = c. 1 km.

[pmotch]

I am aware that the SS was moved... but that was prior to the timeframe we are talking about.
The distance between the SS and the BT is rougly 6000 ft/1850 meters. That in itself is a decent size runway UNTIL you take into consideration the two obstacles.

The SS is a 220 foot tall obstacle, and the BT comes in at 90 feet. Not the toughest thing to either fly over or avoid.. but again, it changes to approach path to the runway and also changes the amount of useable runway you have.
Add to that, smoke and low vis, plus debris and just can't picture a JU52 landing their under anything but ideal conditions.
April '45 was anything but ideal!

Also, the wingspan of a JU52 in roughly 97 feet long. The width of the Ave was roughly 110 feet. Not much margin for error.

I have also read that the lights poles WERE removed to make it a runway, yet I've also seen pictures of the Ave after the Fall of Berlin with the light poles standing there!

Pretty confusing yet VERY interesting at the same time~

[Revi16]

"While the Luftwaffe did attempt to use the East-West Axis as a landing site for container (Behälter) drops any attempts to land large transport aircraft on the Ost-West-Achse after 26 April - if they were made - are almost certain to have failed. Indeed there are pictures depicting a wrecked Ju-52 that apparently crashed on take off from the East West Axis on 26 April 1945."

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2011/1...er-distan.html

http://www.anglonautes.com/hist_us_2...ssian_part.jpg

[pmotch]

Revi16..
I've read that about the containers and landing.
Again, "There are pictures depicting a wrecked Ju52"...
Would love to see them and maybe get a code off the aircraft so we can solve this mystery!

The pic you posted is great... however, it's actually taken from over the East/West Ave-runway. If someone had taken off from the direction that the plane is flying, they would see exactly what the photo shows.
What's really interesting is picture yourself in the left seat of a Ju52, smoke and haze around the Unter Den Linden, with the buildings on either side in flames. Plus, tracer fire coming up at you as every Russian with a bb gun is taking aim at ya!

Pretty harrowing~

Motch

PS> Anyone have pics of what the East West Ave looked like from the air or ground between the SS and the BT, from Apr 45 to May 45?

[pmotch]

Just another though...
Wonder if the Ju52 wreck that is talked about wasn't shot down doing airdrops?!
There are pics of a FW190 not to far from the Reichstag and have always wondered if he was shot down, crash landed after being shot, or landed there and got stuck while on the ground.
Bet that pilot would be great to chat with!

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by pmotch

Revi16..

PS> Anyone have pics of what the East West Ave looked like from the air or ground between the SS and the BT, from Apr 45 to May 45?

Google Earth will give you 21 March 1945 and 31 December 1953 via its historic imagery feature. On the 1945 picture you can make out the shadows of the lamp standards — but this is seven weeks before the Russians launched their final assault, of course.