Bf 110 M8+XE? what unit?

[ianatheling]

Recently on eBay was a photo of a Messerschmitt Bf110 which appears to be coded M8+XE. This would read as an aircraft of Stab.IV/ZG76. However this unit did not have such a gruppe. Would then this be Stab.Erg.Gr./ZG 76? The staffel letter 'X' (which seems high for a stab unit) also appears white?

...or is this actually M8+XL altered by photoshop?

Ian

[edwest]

I'd be curious, Ian, if you know of anyone purchasing a photoshop altered aircraft photo from the period.



Ed

[edwest]

As luck would have it, I've found a link to another photo claiming to be this aircraft.

http://asisbiz.com/il2/Fw-190A/Fw-19...941-42-01.html



Ed

[markjsheppard]

Ian,

Larry will be very interested in this. Was discsussing M8+XE a few days ago on TOCH.

The unit was Stab/ZG76 and they operated M8+WE, M8+XE, M8+YE and M8+ZE. Both YE and ZE were taken over by 6.(Z)/JG5 and lost in the North. M8+ZE was recovered in mid 1990's and remains are still stored at the DTM in Berlin. Perts were used in the restoration of Bf110F-2 Trop LN+NR now on display.

regards

Mark

[ianatheling]

Hi Ed

Thanks for the response and the second image. It suggests that M8+XE did exist. It also links the aircraft with a Walter Grahmann. Another Bf110 with this individual is coded DD+XF which I have with ZS 1 in 1941 and 4./ZG26 in Jan 1942. But this info would not correspond with a Bf110 of ZG76? More detail on Walter Grahmann may help?

My hessitation that the photo could have been (recently!) altered by photoshop was based upon the altered hakenkreuz which shows that at least the image shown on eBay had been changed. M8+XL with a yellow 'X' would seem a more likely answer.

...but the new photo does suggest that this is an authentic photo (apart from the hakenkreuz)

Ian

PS Thanks also to Mark, I would imagine that this is indeed the photo referred to by Larry. That post also confirms that the pilot is Walter Grabmann, rather than Grahmann.

[markjsheppard]

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=28311

[Larry Hickey]

Ian,

Mark has referred you to my recent post. I bought the two most important photos of M8+XE from the auction you referred to. Yes, the swastica on these was obscured, but photos posted on eBay aways have censored swasticas. This has nothing to do with the validity of the a/c codes in the photos, but German laws about publishing images of the swastica.

I fully explained my interpretation of these photos in the post and there really isn't anything more to say that relates to the 1939-40 EoE Project period. An article in a past issue of the Axe Urbanke journal, "Luftwaffe Im Focus," covers the larger picture of Grabmann's entire career, and including the codes/W.Nr. of his aircraft after 1940, largely based on copies of his FBs. As Mark Sheppard explained above, "E" was the designator for ZG76 Stab rather than "A," eg. M8+XE. "X" was the letter designating the Gesch Kde's a/c, a practice in some other Stab units besides ZG76. Stab I.(S) later V.(Z)/LG1 also used this system as did the Stuka Gruppe in LG1, IV.(St)/LG1. The Gr Kdr. Stuka in that unit in 1940 was coded L1+XE. So during 1939-40 at least three different Gruppen used this non-standard system, and there are probably others as well. If anyone knows any other units that used this system in 1939-40, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Regards,

Larry