ANR activity 16 July, 1944

[jcsancho]

I'm interested in ANR operations on 16 July, 1944. The 332 FG made 2 claims on Macchi 205s on a fighter sweep to Vienna. The pilots making the claims were Alfonso Davis and William Green. I haven't found any ANR activity for this date. Does anyone have any insight on ANR fighter operations. Here's an article I found on the encounter. http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/m...27992bc8b.html

[veltro]

Originally Posted by jcsancho

I'm interested in ANR operations on 16 July, 1944. (...) I haven't found any ANR activity for this date.

...Simply because there wasn't one linked to that episode. It was one of the many case of mistaken identity when claiming enemy aircraft.

I° Gruppo Caccia (the only one equipped with Macchi C.205s together with Fiat G.55s) wasn't flying operationally between 12 and 20 July and 2° Gr. C. (equipped with Bf 109s) on that day lost one pilot for an accident near Mantua (over 150 miles from the point of the claims...) when returning from a unfruitful scramble.

AFAIK no Italian units or aircraft were involved in the 332nd FG claims.

[Nick Beale]

I'd say it was mistaken identification. The ANR wasn't flying Macchi 202s in July 1944 and it wasn't operating over Austria, if that's where the combat took place (the article suggests that but doesn't definitely say so). Like you, I don't have anything on a combat over Italy on that date by either the ANR or Luftwaffe fighters.

[Dénes Bernád]

Those spotted "Italian" airplanes were most probably Hungarian ones, and the "Macchi 205s" were, in fact, Bf 109Gs. Because the Hungarian tricolour (red-white-green) was painted on the tail and horizontal stabilisers, they were often mistaken with Italian airplanes.
That day (16 July), the Hungarian 109s' did not suffer any combat losses, although they claimed two B-24s and a lone B-17 south-east of Vienna, all reportedly flying unescorted.

[Larry deZeng]

2. Staffel/Kroatische Jagdgruppe 1 of the Kroatischen Luftwaffen-Legion based at Velika Gorica near Zagreb and 3. Staffel of the same Gruppe at Kurilovec were equipped at this time with Macchi C.202s and were being used to intercept stragglers on the return leg from the 15th AAF missions over Austria and Hungary. They had a wide white band behind the cockpit that encircled the fuselage. Just behind the band appeared in large letters in 4 lines:
"M.C. 202
Serie - XII
M.M. 91910
A.S."

It is not possible from the surviving Croatian documents and literature to determine whether or not they scrambled on 16 July or whether there were any losses for this date.

L.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

They had a wide white band behind the cockpit that encircled the fuselage. Just behind the band appeared in large letters in 4 lines:
"M.C. 202
Serie - XII
M.M. 91910
A.S."

L.

Good catch re the Kroats.

Incidentally, MM 91910 was the Matricola Militare (military serial number) of the individual machine, so each would have carried a different number.

[jcsancho]

Thanks guys for the great input on ANR operations, Hungarian operations, misidentification, and the use of Macchi 202s by the Kroats. I had heard of the Kroats using Macchis for the purpose menitoned, but haven't pursued researching their operations. Interesting topic. In George Loving's book Woodbine Red Leader he also mentioned another encounter with Macchi 205s during this time period - 18 July, 1944. Fellow pilot, Jim Brooks, from the 31st FG claimed a macchi 205 on this date. The groups rendezvous point was Bolzano. Your information provides insight to this claim. Thanks

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
This may or may not be of use.
Luftwaffe lost 2 Bf109G's from JG27 and JG302 lost 1. on the 16th. While on the 18th the Hungarian AF lost a Bf109E.
I do not know if any were lost over Northern Italy though.
Alex