Losses and claims Me 109s over Białystok on 22.06.41

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

I wodner if there are any know losses of Me 109s over Białystok on 22.06.41?

In general lost list there are no many specific places, like Białystok, mostly only the lost of plane. LW had lost if right remeber 7 Me 109s over Western Front on 22.06.41 in different areas.

The same problem with Me 109's claims, there are no information about claims over Białystok?

Soviet had lost at least 2 fighters over this city on 22.06.41, and aslo had claimed at least 2 victories.

Regards,
mw

[Khorat]

Hi Mirek,
JG 51 was in battle in this area, there is one loss Byalistok after a dog fight near Brest-Litowsk, Fw. Theodor Stebner (3.St.) made a emergency landing with Bf 109 F-2 brown 9, serial 5678, he returned unhurt. 2 other 109´s, (8.St.) black 4+I serial 6635, lost in enemy area - pilot returned unhurt -no name given- (near Brest-Litowks), 1 made a emergency landing near Brest-Litowsk (9.St., serial 5662) and damage was given with 40% 2 other 109´s made emergency landings near Terespol, and near Volka-Dobriaska, some others damaged when landing or takeoff.

khorat
Michael Balss

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Thansk
Brześć Litewski is quite far away from Białystok, I suppose that some units which had operate from Suwalki or Sobolewo airfield like II/JG 52 or II(Sch)/LG 2 or III/JG 27 ect. had flown over the city. Which is nearer then for IV/JG 51 Krzewica or I/JG 53. It was Also different battle aera. But I could be wrong?

Losses near Brześć Litewski were done mostly by 123. IAP, which fought in this aera. Me 109s had attacked a few times its main base Imienin. There were 2 air battles over there in the morning. So the losses near Brześć are done by this unit.
Białystok was protected by other regiments like 41. IAP.

Regards,
mw

[oquaig]

Hi Mirek,

My understanding of fighter operations on 22 June is that stab.JG51 and IV./JG51 covered Panzer Group 2, while groups I.II.III./JG51 escorted bombers and strafed airfields. II./JG52 flew cover for Panzer group 3 while JG27 and JG 53 flew as escorts bombers, stukas and Hs 123 of 10./LG2 and strafed airfields. Over Białystok I suspect it would be II./LG2, JG27 and JG 53.

[Nokose]

According to Heinz Knoke there were 4 Bf 109 of 6./JG52 performing Jabo missions against a Russian HQ west of Druskieniki on the 22 June during that day but only meeting AAA.

[oquaig]

Originally Posted by Nokose

According to Heinz Knoke there were 4 Bf 109 of 6./JG52 performing Jabo missions against a Russian HQ west of Druskieniki on the 22 June during that day but only meeting AAA.

Druskieniki was also one of the forward airfields for 15 IAP based at Altyus. The 12th Panzer Division (Hoth) crossed the Nieman river 22 km to the north at Merkine on 22 June. The 23rd and 128th rifle Divisions each had a regiment cut off to the south of Merkine and the retreated thru Druskieniki on the 23rd of June. Possibly 6./JG52 was hitting one of these regiment HQs.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Druskieniki was also one of the forward airfields for 15 IAP based at Altyus

No way with 15. IAP, it had 3 airfield on 22.06.41, where its planes had bases: Kowno, plus two additional: Pocunay and Vinczay.

In Alytus had air base 236. IAP, which was formed with support of 15. and 31. IAP for several months. It had got from them planes plus pilots. 236. IAP had more then 20 I-153 on 22.06.41.

Regards,
mirekw

[oquaig]

Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski

No way with 15. IAP, it had 3 airfield on 22.06.41, where its planes had bases: Kowno, plus two additional: Pocunay and Vinczay.

I don't know why it was stuck in my head that 15 IAP was at Alytus. Must be from Bergstrom (BCRS which I consider a very poor source of accurate information) and his account of 5./ZG26 attacking 15 IAP at Alytus or maybe from Allaces web site which says: “Перед началом войны полк базировался на аэродромах Алитус близ Ковно (Каунас), Поцунай, Венчай.” Which I took to mean it was actually at Alytus.

Originally Posted by Mirek Wawrzynski

In Alytus had air base 236. IAP, which was formed with support of 15. and 31. IAP for several months. It had got from them planes plus pilots. 236. IAP had more then 20 I-153 on 22.06.41.

This is a surprise. I had no idea 236 IAP was operational on 22 June. My source says it was at Olita with 22 I-16 and still forming up. What was your source on this ? And when are you going to publish a book on this ?

best wishes
Oquaig

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Must be from Bergstrom (BCRS which I consider a very poor source of accurate information)

Not only Bergstrom but other authots also put 15. IAP into Alytus/Olita. Which is wrong. I can 100 % agree that BCRS is very, very wrong source of information, plenty of errors, and false information etc. Some of data there are pure fiction or author's imagination. Not recommended.

236. IAP was "operational" regiment, it had got before 22.06.41 more then 20 I-153, from 15. and 31. IAP. Next should follow. And the last but not least, it had the first air combat on 22.06.41 over North-Western Front. During it had lost 3 I-153s shot dwon in combat with Me 109s of 5./JG 27 and III/JG 53. German had claimed 5 "I-15 and DJ-6".


Yes, it is possible in some time, but in Polish.

Regards,
mw

[Nokose]

Mirek,
What's your take on Karl-Gottfried Nordmann's claim on the 22Jun41 10:10 W of Kobryn of an I-153. Christer Bergstroem believes it was deputy AE co. Lt. Petr Sergeevich Ryabtsev of the 123 IAP who bailed out.