Unknown losses during air raids against Saki and Sarabus (Crimea) in Apr.43

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello friends,

according to KTB German Army Group 'A' (morning record on 19.Apr.43 about "last night" =18/19.Apr.?), during the Soviet night air raid against Saki airfield 16 a/c were destroyed and damaged.

In KTB Befehlshaber Krim (XXXXII.AK):
18.Apr.43: during night air raids on Saki and Sarabus 7 He111 destroyed and 9 He111 damaged

So, sufficient losses. But I can't find any in GQM loss list. Is it means, what ground losses in GQM list so incomplete?

Best regards,
Andrey

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Maybe info of possibly involved units will be helpful?

III./KG4,
Stab, II./KG55
4(F)./122

Also maybe some crews from III./KG55

Not He111, but 2-Mot.Bombers also:
Stab, I., III./KG51, III./KG3

Best regards,
Andrey

[RT]

Probably also a mix of all these ones+ some others , there was a big field-workshop there, maybe that is why the losses where not reported by GQM, but to say that the docs reporting the losses for , schools, nd non-combattant units ignored also this event

Rémi

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Thank you, Rémi!

I'll try to explain my question later.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Addition:

Report from Bef.Krim to AOK17 22:20 18.Apr.43:
From 20:40 air raid against airfield Saki and Sarabus. According to unconfirmed report, 1 enemy a/c shot down.
5 our a/c (He111) are burning.
(It is a preliminary report, final - 7 destroyed and 9 damaged)

From Soviet side:
It was the raid of 50.AD DD (50.division of long-range aviation) .
8 crews from 5.GAP DD 21:47-22:33 MSK (20:47-21:33 Gernan) bombed Saki airfield, claimed 10 fires (assumed as burning aircrafts), 2 explosions and explosion of a fuel tank on the northern border of airfield .
3 crews from 21.AP DD 21:33-21:43 MSK also bombed Saki airfield, claimed 8 fires (assumed as burning aircrafts, probably the same), 2 explosions and 6 hits to runway.
Also, 3 crews from 21.AP DD 21:33-22:44 bombed a Saki sanatorium (according to agent data, used by German pilots), claimed 1 building destroyed.

No losses from the Soviet side.

As we can see, results were very good, and claimed results were close to reality.

Of course, many raids were far less successful. But in some cases we can't say nothing about German losses.

I must interrupt the post and continue it tomorow

Best regards,
Andrey

[Larry deZeng]

Sarabus - closest to 18 Apr 43:

24 Apr 43: bombed – 1 x Ju 88 A-4 from 4.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 122 and 4 x Ju 52s from Transportstaffel I. Fliegerkorps destroyed (4) or damaged (1) on the ground.

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

Sarabus - closest to 18 Apr 43:

24 Apr 43: bombed – 1 x Ju 88 A-4 from 4.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 122 and 4 x Ju 52s from Transportstaffel I. Fliegerkorps destroyed (4) or damaged (1) on the ground.

Thank you, Larry! It is strange, what these losses were listed by GQM, but losses during the night 18/19.April are absent in the list.
In KTB HGr A mentioned strong air raids against Saki, Sarabus, Bagerovo and Samorsk (Zamorsk) airfields, but nothing about losses.
Morning report 24.Apr of 153.FAD says about air raid on Saki:
22:25-01:12 20-25 HE Bombs, damages (not described), craters on the runway.

I haven't yet any details from German side about results of air raids during the night 23/24.April against Sarabus, Bagerovo and Samorsk. According to GQM, all aircraft losses were in Sarabus.

It is a small details, of course. But it seems ground losses in GQM list are uncomplete really.
Now I try to collect the data for the book about "Kuban air battles" (Soviet term for air war during Apr.-Jun.43 over basin of Kuban' river, Taman peninsula and environs including Crimea). During 2011-2012 I collected a big volume of data from Russian archives and good portion from German side.

Losses data is the important part for analysis, of course. And now confidence is absent that all German losses for the south flank of Ostfront in Apr.-Jun.43 are known. From time to time fragmentary mentions about a/c losses in German Army documents, for example, don't correspond to GQM list.

Personal losses from WASt (NVM), as far as I know, don't available now. It is right?
By the way, Russian analogue of WASt available on-line for free.

Returning to Kuban Air Battles. I don't know now, what REALLY means this event, this terrible meat-chopper. Was it a great step to change the side in air superiority or not? It is interesting, and it is require further research.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Larry deZeng]

Losses data is the important part for analysis, of course. And now confidence is absent that all German losses for the south flank of Ostfront in Apr.-Jun.43 are known. From time to time fragmentary mentions about a/c losses in German Army documents, for example, don't correspond to GQM list.

You are right, Andrey. There are definitely anomalies and deficiencies in the Gen.Qu.(6.Abt.) Verlustmeldungen, especially when it comes to losses in the former USSR. This fact has been frequently discussed on this and other forums. To what degree? One can only guess, but I would say that it is around 2% to 3%.

Personal losses from WASt (NVM), as far as I know, don't available now. It is right?

Right again. The West German Privacy Act Law of 1988 restricted access to the NVMs to family members. If you were interested in the NVM for just one individual because you were writing a biography of that person, then you could contact WASt Berlin and plead your case and ask for an exception. However, many copies of the NVMs are in private hands, these being copies that were obtained prior to 1988.

Larry

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

Now I try to collect the data for the book about "Kuban air battles" (Soviet term for air war during Apr.-Jun.43 over basin of Kuban' river, Taman peninsula and environs including Crimea). During 2011-2012 I collected a big volume of data from Russian archives and good portion from German side.

Very interesting topic you selected for research, Andrey.
I hope your study will be published one day in English, too!

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

To what degree? One can only guess, but I would say that it is around 2% to 3%.

If so, it means almost nothing for analysis in whole.
It is sensitive for research of some episodes like air raid on Saki. Raids against Crimean air bases were attempt to easing the Luftwaffe pressure during heavy fights on Taman peninsula. Success of this attempt still disputable.

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

... many copies of the NVMs are in private hands, these being copies that were obtained prior to 1988.
Larry

Hope that forum community can help with NVM info for Luftflotte 4 in Apr.-Jun.1943. I think that almost no problems with fighter units (many thanks to Mr.Prien and his co-authors) but many other units still less studied.
Also, part of NVM records contains exact time of loss, it is also important for research.

Best regards,
Andrey