Claims of JG 104 17/08/1943-16/03/1944

[Johannes]

Hi Guys

Hope somebody can help clear up some unknown details about the claims of JG 104. Seems this training unit made six claims all for heavy bombers over a seven month period, most appear by it's leaders, and others I would guess by it's students. A list of losses for this unit would be a help:-

17th August 1943 2./JG 104 B-17 Oblt Eberhard Bock 1245 hrs 4000 metres 4km SW Hemau.
14th October 1943 2./JG 104 B-17 Fw "Bauer" Karl 1435 hrs 7000 metres North of Kitzingen(surname looks like Bauer, but am not 100% sure, forename is Karl.
22nd February 1944 2./JG 104 B-24 Oblt Eberhard Bock 1007 hrs 6000 metres at Obertraubing.
25th February 1944 2./JG 104 B-24 Oblt Eberhard Bock 1257 hrs 6000 metres 8km West of Heinheim.
25th February 1944 3./JG 104 B-24 Lt "Gernot" Sturm 1320 hrs 6000 metres(for some reason I seemed to think fourteen years ago that his forename was Gernot, but again not 100 % sure)
16th March 1944 3./JG 104 B-17 Ofw Schönweiss 1310 hrs 4700 metre 5km SE Reutlingen(never have been able to establish his forename)

We be grateful is anybody can fill in the blanks, and apart from Eberhard Bock I would love to know where they transfered to after training?

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Kapper]

Johannes

Are you sure that the claim was for Lt Gernot Sturm and not Lt Gernot Stein?

Tony Woods has interpreted this as Stein in his list and this seems to fit with Lt Gernot Stein of JG27. According to the history of JG27 (I think by Gerbig, I don't have the book with me at the moment - only my notes on my computer) has a Lt Gernot Stein making 4 claims of which 3 were with JG27 before going MIA 27 Dec 44. These 3 claims were 8 Jul 44, 23 Sep 44 and 17 Dec 44 - so a claim prior to transferring to JG27 on 25 Feb 44 with JG104 seems to make sense.

JG104 seems to have some sort of connection with JG27 with several JG27 pilots becoming instructors in the unit. Also Oblt. Bock that you mentioned was later transferred to JG27, so maybe the other 2 pilots mentioned were also transferred to JG 27?

No positive proof but it all seems to fit.

Regards,

Craig...

[Johannes]

Hi Graig

Sounded well sound, I looked at the micro film again(which is clear, but again just a case of deciphering the handwriting) and there is an . where you's expect it(and another spurios one between the S and T), and the forename is clearly Gernot, so obviosly he was an instructor with JG 104 before being transferred to a combat unit.

Many thanks, another mystery solved, and I'll scrutinize my JG 27 date to see if anything matches the others, and update my Stein biography.

Johannes

[Dmitry Volodin]

Schönweiß Konrad from I./JG54?

[Johannes]

Hi Dimtriy

An interesting supposition. Konrad Schönweiss made four claims with 1./Jg54 between 15th August 1940 and 23rd August 1941.......then nothing, I can find no loss for this Feldwebel. So this Ofw could well be him, there is no proof, but the rank progression is correct, and it would explain what happened to Konrad.

I'll do a separate e.mail about konrad.

Thanks for your held

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Recceswind]

As far as I remember, Uffz. Kurt Claussen claimed two "Boeings" shot down during his service with JG 104 (as "Jagdfluglehrer") in late 1943 - early 1944. He was awarded with EK II for this achievement. Do you have his claims on your list?

Regards

[Johannes]

Hi

There is not a single claim of Claussen's that is found on the micro films, the latter ones because the daily micro film entries had ceased, the two you mention if ever made were unconfirmed. The daily micro film entries for January 1944 are only the sub A.S.M/V.N.E list, but the Staffel listing date and time only should be in existence, I'll look for it and go through again to see if there is anything I can't put a name to, but would have done so years ago. Funny enough I previously had him with JG 100 not JG 104, though I am not sure really if JG 100 ever existed?

Thanks for your e.mail.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Recceswind]

Johannes,

Claussen served with JG 104, JG 103 and JG 3 (JG 100 has never existed). I think that his claims were confirmed, as he received EK II in May 1944. I have never heard about instructor awarded with EK for flying with students... Moreover his first air kill as JG 3 pilot had no. 3 in his Flugbuch.

Regards

[Johannes]

Hi

I did look through the JG 104 micro film listing only date and time, and there is nothing unaccounted for, however I cannot JG 103's. I do have a copy of Ernst Laube's logbook, it has several abschüße listed and numbered that appear to have gone unconfirmed. I assume that you have only part of Claussen's logbook?(early start of third book)

Seems they hold approx a thousand entry points for flights, I have a copy of Weißenberger's which lists those from 12th July 1941 flight number 971 until flight number 1685 on 30th October 1944. Seems Claussen reached 1950 flights on 18th December 1944 and 2003 on 30th April 1945. I take it you have the four Russian claims with 9./JG 3:-

19th February 1945 Boston 1358 hrs
3rd March 1945 P-39 1055 hrs
11th March 1945 Il-2 1149 hrs
11th March 1945 Il-2 1155 hrs

Guess these would be the start of his third logbook.

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Frans A]

Johannes,
I have in the database a Hptm.Eberhard Böck, 5./JG 27 KIA 44-05-28 near Helmstedt.
Regards

Frans.A