Searching crashplace of P-38J 42-68097, 4 March 1944

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello, I am studying the fate of 2nd Lt Edward Gustave Pfeiffer of 55th FS, 20th FG who was captured on 4 March 1944. The text below has been built starting from the MACR 2783.

"2nd Lt Edward Gustave Pfeiffer of 55th FS, 20th FG was flying this day the P-38J-10-LO 42-68097. The squadron was southwest of Berlin at 28,000 feet when he called his flight leader, Capt Serros, asking him to wait for him and then reporting he had to feather up his left engine. The squadron leader, Capt Maurice R McLary, and his wingman went back for him and weaved over him as escort. About 15 minutes later he called McLary, saying "Mac, I'm going to have to bale out. My right engine is quitting." McLary replied "OK... So long, and good luck", and dropped down and circled over him to see if his chute opened. He was at 18,000 ft and preparing to go down through the overcast with both engines feathered. He then called again, saying he was going to ride it down to 10,000 ft before baling out. The last he said was, "See you in Hollywood, Mac." It was then 1130 hrs and they were near Sonneberg, Germany, according to the original MACR 2783.

Pfeiffer survived and spent the end of the war in captivity. After his release he filled in a casualty questionnaire that was added to MACR 2783, in which he stated he bailed out near Werl, close to the Ruhr, far more west than what was said by the original MACR. No German crash report is attached to the MACR."

Both possible crashplaces listed in the MACR are far away from each other. Sonneberg is IMHO too far south (the biggest Sonneberg in Germany is in Thuringen, and three other are in Sax), and I guess Pfeiffer was brought to Werl after capture and remembered it, so my opinion is that Werl is more plausible than Sonneberg, but I would like to have a confirmation of the crashplace of this P-38.

Thanks in advance

[RSwank]

On fold3.com there is an index of KU reports for March of 44. On March 4 there is this entry.
4 Mar 44 13:40 Lighting KI* 8 km West of Herberg, 6 km NW of Attendorn J 647.

Now KI was the squadron code for the 55th FS.
They lost 3 planes that day, one near the French coast, one over Holland and Pfeiffer's plane.

The MACR records the "Last Seen" position of his plane as over Eisfeld at 11:30.
The other two losses occurred later in the day while they were coming over, so I wonder if the 11:30 time is wrong for Pfeiffer.

At any rate, I would think Attendorn is closer to Werl than is Eisfeld/Sonneberg.

[Frank Olynyk]

J 647 is for a Lockheed Lightning, crashed on March 4, 1944, at 1340 hours. The location is given as "800 m westlich Hobbers (6 km nordöstlich Attendorn - Sauerland)". The pilot is noted as Oberfahrnich Edward G Pfeiffer, O753723, gefangen.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Thanks a lot to both of you!

Mr Rswank, I have a fold3 account but so far had only found the index of KU and other German reports for 1 Jan-29 Feb 1944, I did not know that the March 1944 list was available. I have now found it.

Frank, the name is confirming this was the right crash. Thanks a lot.

As for the time difference, it is surprising because in March 1944 the official time zone for both Germany and Great Britain was GMT + 1. The 1340 hrs is far more coherent with all other losses and claims this day, so the 1130 hrs is probably an error.

Best regards

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Just another question for Frank: do you have a German version of the report or an US translation ?

I ask this because I have not been able to find a place called Hobbers or Herberg close to Attendorn. On the other hand there is a place called Hebberg some km NW of Attendorn (the fold document says 6 km NW of Attendorn, you said 6 km NE).

[Frank Olynyk]

Laurent,
I have the German report. I figured the American translation would just introduce potential errors.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Thanks Frank for the quick reply again.

Hobbers just seemed more English than Deutsch in its spelling, and as I could not find one, I thought it might have been a bad copy/translation.

I just had another idea and thought that the final s might be an abreviate form of strasse, so I searched a Hobberstrasse in the area, but still no luck.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

I did another pass on several map websites and I am convinced that the location was near Hebberg, NW of Attendorn for the following reasons:

_ Hebberg is close in spelling to Herberg in the translated doc available on fold3.
_ it is also not so far from Hobbers in the original German document.
_ it is exactly 6 km from Attendorn.
_ regarding the NW or NE direction from Attendorn, NW is more probable because a point 6 km NW of Attendorn is still depending from Attendorn, while 6 km NE it will be under Finnetrop juridiction, and so this later place will probably be the place of reference of the crash. On the other hand, between Attendorn and Hebberg, there is no big village, only forest and hills, so a reference to Attendorn seems logical.

[Alex Smart]

Hi,
Not many to chose from on the 4th.
Scott (MACR 2782 Holland), Bisher(MACR 2784 in sea), Lloyd(MACR2792 in sea) and Pfeiffer.

KU's have larger list of Lightnings on the 4th.,
Lightning - Avignon - J1053.
Lightning - Cheval Blanc - J1017.
Lightning - SE of Avignon - ME906.
Lightning - S of Berre L'Etang into sea - ME907.
Unknown - 8km SW of Donkergue - AV760/44.
Lightning - 1340 - KI - 8km W of Herberg/6km NW of Attendorn - J647.
Lightning - 1530 - Near Evregnier - J639.

Alex

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello Alex

Two of these reports (and possibly more) are for two F-5 of 23rd PRG lost in Southern France.