11 Oct 40-who shot something down.

[Chris Goss]

On this evening, 6 Do 17s of 1 & 2/606 attacked Liverpool. 5 made it to the target area, the 6th attacking Birkenhead. 2 aircraft were lost-one coming down in the sea 50 miles SW Holyhead (1/606, Williams & Watkins of 611 Sqn) and another from 2/606 was reported missing, claimant uncertain. Jack Foreman's book said 611 Sqn claimed 2 more destroyed (10 miles south of Caernarvon and another which crashed on Capel Curig but which was in fact the one that returned to Brest 2 crew having baled out) and a final one damaged over Liverpool Bay (probably the 2/606 aircraft which was also attacked by 312 Sqn). So for 2 destroyed and one damaged, the RAF claimed 3 destroyed, one damaged, one probable (611 Sqn) and 2 damaged (312 Sqn). Am I correct?

[Martin Gleeson]

Chris,
.
Where to begin with these actions ! The Combat Report for F/Lt. Leather in 'BEWARE, BEWARE' (The History of 611 Squadron) notes he claimed two Do 17s (shared with F/O Pollard and P/O Sutton). In his report he details one crashed about 10 miles south of Caernarfon and the other crashed near Ca
pel Curig. If so that would mean 611 Squadron claimed 4 destroyed. However the claims list at the end of the book shows only one destroyed against his name and no probable or damaged.
Using several publications it seems 611 Squadron claimed;
3 (4) destroyed and one probable. No claims for damaged aircraft.
One Destroyed by Watkins & Williams ('7T+EK' ?) 50 miles SW of Holyhead.
One Destroyed by Angus & Pattison ('7T+HH' ? ) Into Liverpool Bay.
One or two Destroyed by Leather, Pollard & Sutton. S of Caernarfon & Capel Curig.
One Probable by Heath ('7T+EH') Over Hoylake/River Dee/Flint/Denbigh.
.
Several questions arise here.
From the crew of '7T+EH' where was Starf taken prisoner and where was the body of Johannsen found ?
Were any wrecks found at the locations S of Caernarfon and at Capel Curig ?
From what wreck (Do 215 (sic), North Wales) did the famous scoreboard of 611 Squadron come from ?
.
Can I add further to the confusion !
In published works that I have seen there are two more losses for KuFlGr 606.
9 October 1940 Do 17Z-3 2771, 7T+HL. Lost, all 4 crew killed.
10 October 1940 Do 17Z-33618, 7T+KL. Returned to Brest, 15% damaged.
.
However the notes I took at the IWM in 1990 and 1996 from the Luftwaffe QM Gen. Loss Returns indicate these two were lost on the 11th. All these 5 losses were filed on the 13th (for the 11th). It could be simple date errors or a consolidated report from the unit. However are there casualty reports on the German or British side to confirm the date of loss of 'HL and 'KL ?
.
Regards,
.
Martin.

[Peter Cornwell]

Martin,

I have your two errant losses listed thus:

9 October 1940 3./KüFlGr. 606 Dornier Do17Z-3 (2771). Failed to return from night sortie to Crewe and crashed in the sea 20 km off Lizard Point, Cornwall. BM Fw Kurt Göhlich killed, BO Lt zur See Erik von Harbou, FF Fw Hans-Georg Langer, and BF Obergefr Herbert Rübesam all missing. Aircraft 7T+HL 100% write-off.
No trace found despite search by Breguet WZ+AD of Seenotflugkdo.1 from Brest-Süd that evening and again the following morning. The body of Kurt Göhlich was recovered from the sea off St Eval on November 1.

10 October 1940 3./KüFlGr. 606 Dornier Do17Z-3 (3618). Landed damaged at Brest following sortie, cause not stated. Crew all unhurt. Aircraft 7T+KL 15% damaged but repairable.

[Chris Goss]

Definitely just 6 aircraft (3 each from 1 & 2 Staffel) operating on 11 Oct 40. 10 Oct 40 sortie was to Liverpool & Crewe. No mention of the damage to 7T+KL