Luftwaffe crash at Oberpfaffenhofen 1.5.40

[steve sheridan]

Hi can anybody help with this loss from i believe KG51 1.5.40.

I have the name Lt Artur Wolff Von Plotteg and Gefr Lorenz Haberl killed in the incident at Oberpfaffenhofen. Does anybody have the details on hand.

Best regs,
Steve.

[Peter Cornwell]

Steve,

I have no knowledge of the deaths of these men nor of a loss for KG51 on May 1, 1940. Anyone ?

[steve sheridan]

Peter i have since found the original source of this incident.
The details are in the German edition of Dierich's KG51 book, and lists this aircraft from 3/KG51.
There is also another crewman listed as KIA Lt Artur Wolf.
No other details noted.

Best regs,
Steve.

[Peter Cornwell]

Hello Steve,

Thanks for quoting your source. On further checking I now find that the GQM Returns do indeed report the loss of a Junkers Ju88A-1 of I./KG51 at Oberpfaffenhofen on May 1, 1940, (100% Bruch) with the death of two crewmen including the aforementioned Lt Wolf. Yet the VDK website contains no reference to these men nor is there any mention of them in the NVMs for I./KG51 that I have on file. So it remains something of a mystery to me I fear.

Incidentally, this loss does not feature in The Battle of France Then & Now as it falls outside the parameters adopted for inclusion - not being directly relevant to operations over the Western Front which remain the main focus of the book.

Regards,

Peter C

[steve sheridan]

Hello Peter, thanks for the confirmation of this incident from the GQM records.
Can you possibly help with another querie from KG51 that should possibly feature from your new book, which i may add, i have on order!

2.6.40 I/KG51 loss Oblt Paul Kiebele, Fw George Koppel, Ofw. Schultzki all KIA. France

Rgs,
Steve.

[Peter Cornwell]

Hi Steve,

Happy to oblige. From p414 of The Battle of France Then & Now which I hope you enjoy when it arrives:

3./KG51 Junkers Ju88A. Shot down by S/Lt Picot of GC III/9 between Nantua and Bellegarde-sur-Valserine and crashed near Dagneux, north-east of Lyons, following attack on Marseille 9.10 a.m. Oberlt P. Kibele, Oberfw M. Schulzki, Fw G. Köppel, and Uffz R. Bauer killed. Aircraft a write-off.

[steve sheridan]

Many thanks Peter, cant wait for the book to arrive!!

Best regs,
Steve.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello,

I resurrect this old thread because I am interested in the fate of the second loss, described by Peter Cornwell in 2008 as:

"3./KG51 Junkers Ju88A. Shot down by S/Lt Picot of GC III/9 between Nantua and Bellegarde-sur-Valserine and crashed near Dagneux, north-east of Lyons, following attack on Marseille 9.10 a.m. Oberlt P. Kibele, Oberfw M. Schulzki, Fw G. Köppel, and Uffz R. Bauer killed. Aircraft a write-off."

The same is written in the book "Battle of France Then and Now".

But a French source (http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/201...e-en-maurienne) in 2010 said that this bomber crashed near Ambans, Savoie, while trying to reach Italy over the Alps.

And the book "Les victoires de l'aviation de chasse française, vol 2 (16 mai-4 juin 1940)", by Arnaud Gillet, has nothing about this loss and links the claim by S/Lt Picot of GC III/9 to the bomber of 8./KG 55 that was later achieved over Switzerland by two Swiss fighters.

So, I would be interested to know if Peter's entry in his database is still the same, or if new data had enabled him to change it.

Best regards

[udf_00]

All in french :
Downloadable pdf
http://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2011/08/12...ers-88-v11.pdf

http://crashavionallemand39-45.over-...-92766330.html
http://crashavionallemand39-45.over-...-88691634.html

vallée d’Ambin, hameau du Planay
Plate :
Best Nr 54835 / 12
Zeichn Nr 88.651-74
Typ U Grp JU 88 A-1

[Peter Cornwell]

Laurent,

My database entry for this loss currently remains as shown but obviously now needs urgent revision. I was unaware that this crew was originally buried at Bramans so far from Dagneux. Many thanks for bringing this to my attention, I am most grateful.

Peter C