Hurricane Z4932 lost ME 1941

[Brian]

Hi guys

I'm seeking the date of the loss of Z4932/OL-B, said to have been a victim of Schultz of II/JG27, that crash-landed in the Desert; unknown pilot of RNAS probably survived and possibly captured. I've since found some information via Google, still confusing though.

Also, on 25 November 1941, OL-G of RNAS was shot down - is the serial number known?

Any help appreciated.



Cheers
Brian

[Stig Jarlevik]

Brian

Z4932 sounds odd being a victim of II./JG 27 since the 'official' SOC date is stated as 8.3.1944. No doubt a lot of SOC dates are out of line the further away from the Motherland the aircraft gets, but this seems to be a bit too far...

Cheers
Stig

[Larry]

Interestingly the AB Historians book Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945 by Ray Sturtivant and Mick Burrow says of Z4932;

Hurricane 1/Trop, RNFS, Engine Failure, Force Landed 3 miles East of Martuba, Cat R 15th January 1942.

The AB book on RAF Aircraft W1000 to Z9999, does indeed say it was with RNFS and SOC 8th March 1944 and is almost certainly a clean up of the records.

Regarding the loss on 25th November 1941 you may wish to consider these .

Hurricane 1 / Trop Z4698 of '806 NAS' Coded G - 23rd November 1941 port undercarriage collapsed at LG130 - pilot S/Lt KC Talbot OK, aircraft repaired and returned to RAF. But evidently the pilot then took off again in another Hurricane 1 / Trop W9359 of '806 NAS' and FL in desert on the same day after combat with Bf109s during a sweep over El Aden. He was rescued by retreating troops, returned to unit 2 days later on 25th November.

Also

Hurricane 1 / Trop Z4267 of RNFS was SOC on 26th November 1941
Hurricane 1 / Trop Z6985 of RNFS 'crashed 26th November 1941'

For my own interest which units made up the RN Fighter Squadron; was it 803 and 806 NAS?

Did RNFS use any Sea Hurricanes, together with their Hurricane 1 / Trop aircraft, as it makes a search much easier!

[Brian]

Many thanks, Larry

Now as clear as mud!! No disrespect intended!!

I must endeavour to locate the RNFS records.

For your reference, the RNFS comprised elements/remnants of 803, 805 and 806 Squadrons, and was equipped with ex-RAF Hurricanes (no Sea Hurricanes), Fulmars, Buffaloes, Martlets and Sea Gladiators! And, I believe, the odd Skua!!

Cheers
Brian

[Brian]

Continuing saga!

I've now established that OL-B was shot down on 23 November 1941, with Lt DPZ Cox returning a few days later having suffered burns.

Problem - I don't know if Z4932/OL-B was his aircraft on that date, or if the latter was a replacement OL-B and arrived on strength after 23 November!

Help!

Cheers
Brian

[Larry]

Brian I have just found a duplicate entry in Ray's book in that it says

Hurricane 1 / Trop W9359, 806 NAS - Sidi Haneish, FL in desert on 23rd November 1941 after combat with Bf109s during a sweep over El Aden. S/Lt KG Talbot was rescued by retreating troops, returned to unit 2 days later on 25th November. And yet he was supposed to be in Z4698- unless there was a KG and KC Talbot on the Sqn at the same time?

BTW - other losses for 23rd November 1941;

Hurricane 1 / Trop V7308 'C' - S/Lt AJC Willis FTR from fighter sweep and KIA
Hurricane 1 / Trop Z4698 'G' - Port u/c collapsed at LG 130 Cat R (S/L KC Talbot again!)

[Brian]

Hi Larry and other interested parties

We are making progress! Hopefully!

Regarding Z4932/OL-B Kiwi (the one in the Chris Shores' picture). According to the RNFS ORB, nothing happened on 15/1/42; however, nothing of interest to our quest occurred on 25/1/42 either, although Hurricanes of RNAS were probably in action during which pilots of II/JG27 claimed four 'P.40s', all falling in Axis territory, two being credited to Obfw Otto Schultz. There were no P.40 losses, but Shores' caption to the photograph states that OL-B was a victim of Otto Schultz!!

Clear as mud?

Secondly, has anyone a book written by Don Nairn (Gold Wings and Webbed Feet), who was a NZ pilot with RNAS but flying Martlets?
Just speculation, but might he have been the pilot on board Hurricane OL-B/Kiwi?

Ever hopeful!

Cheers
Brian

[Frank Olynyk]

Brian,

There are about 4 copies of Gold Wings and Webbed Feet at used.addall.com priced from about 36$US to 48$US, plus the usual outliers from Amazon partners.

The British Library has a book titled Torpedo! Kiwis at sea in World War II, edited by Matthew Wright, published by Random House New Zealand in Auckland in 2007, with an article by Don Nairn titled ``David and Goliath''. I couldn't find Gold Wings and Webbed Feet in their catalog.

With regard to KC Talbot or KG Talbot, on your next visit to the PRO you should take a look at Royal Navy Officers List in the Library there. The 1941 or 1942 issues should give you his full name.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Brian]

Hi Frank

I've now ordered a copy of Gold Wings and Webbed Feet, so may soon know the answer! Thanks.

By the way, any news re Dicky Bird?

Cheers
Brian